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Canada's top court backs order for Google to remove firm's website from searches

cbc.ca

181–190 of 249 posts

Re: Canada's top court backs order for Google to remove firm's website from searches

#181

This wouldn't be the first time a government is requiring Google to modify their search results. This case parallels the "right to be forgotten" cases brought against them by the EU several years ago. There is a reason that civil liberties and human rights organizations like the ACLU are concerned about this precedent. In the US, with the murders of unarmed civilians by law enforcement and subsequent acquittals occur…

It's not a government doing anything. Courts are not part of 'the government'.

Re: Canada's top court backs order for Google to remove firm's website from searches

#182
post #18

> Google voluntarily removed hundreds of webpages from its Canadian search results on Google.ca. But the material continued to show up on Google's global search results. > So Equustek obtained a further injunction from the court ordering Google to remove the websites from its global search results. > Google appealed and argued it was not a real party to the dispute, and that a global injunction would violate freedom…

There's a question of jurisdiction. Should any country's courts be able to restrict what happens in other countries?

The Canadian courts aren't saying what should happen in the US. They are saying what Google should do if they want to operate in Canada.

Re: Canada's top court backs order for Google to remove firm's website from searches

#183
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Supreme Court did cite the test governing the provision of interlocutory orders. That test is well known law from RJR MacDonald . There's a bit of a blurb regarding the case in my comment below, but you can look up the case and you'll find the full test and commentary. The government isn't proposing anyone do anything; A private party is, and asked for the court's help. The second private party is very clearly ac…

The unfortunate part of that test appears to be that the private party can request the moon. A reasonable person might expect a court that is required "judge what's in front of them" to not apply their judgement to foreign jurisdictions. I wonder how this would be applied to a physical storefront from a global retailer that happened to have presence in Canada...I suppose they'd be forced to remove physical non-Canadi…

Regarding the retailer example: Suppose they have been selling counterfeit products and a Canadian court orders them to remove the product from all their stores. It would be completely justified in requiring this to happen worldwide. Allowing a modification of the order if it conflicts with law in other jurisdictions is just being generous.

However, the only consequences that can be imposed for failing to follow the order relate to doing business in Canada. Any corporation has to decide for themselves whether complying with the local law, even if it requires action somewhere else, is worth it for them.

It is in fact quite common for countries to leverage their local power into effecting a worldwide result. E.g. the US embargo on Iran cut off anyone doing business there from access to US financial institutions, and almost nobody wanted to risk that.

Re: Canada's top court backs order for Google to remove firm's website from searches

#184
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Equustek obtained court orders requiring Google to remove Datalink websites from its Canadian search results. That is, Equustek does not own the Datalink website, but wants it de-indexed. And just to clarify, this article was about Equustek obtaining a further injunction from the court ordering Google to remove the websites from its global search results.

whoa that's messed up, I think google is right in that this is between Equustek and Datalink. This does indeed seem like a bad precedent.

Except, they've fled the country and only can continue business because of Google's search results. So, Google is basically contributing to their business existing. That's why the order was granted.

Re: Canada's top court backs order for Google to remove firm's website from searches

#186
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't their site. From the article: "Equustek Solutions based in Burnaby B.C., which manufacturers networking technology. Equustek had successfully sued another company for relabelling its products and passing them off as their own." When the evil corp lost in Canada, it moved out of the country and continued the same practice. Frankly, I'm disappointed in Google for fighting this in the first place. SMH. Imagine…

Why can't you rebrand a product? You bought it, you own it, you can resell it. This case is much more complicated however. It's two business partners who had a falling out and both tried to put each other out of business. The marketing guy kept their own brand and customer base while the tech guy tried to rebrand and sell his products on his own. The marketing guy hired an engineer to make a new product that does the…

You're kind of missing the bit about the engineer they hired used to work for the other company.

Re: Canada's top court backs order for Google to remove firm's website from searches

#187
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a perverse lens you are looking through... He was refused and detained at the border and not criminally charged. He has no right to enter Canada and can be turned away for any reason, but right-wing extremism is as good as any. There any many first hand accounts of Canadians trying to cross into the US for the inauguration and being rejected because their political views. The thing about 'misgendering' now being…

I am I fact a Canadian citizen, not sure why you’d assume otherwise. Also, I fail to see how providing a few links as context for the GPs last paragraph as the P requested should elicit such a rude and threatening response from you.

You really flipped the script, eh? Marching down a city street saying you hate an entire religion is threatening. I said intolerance won't make you many friends here, which I'm sure you've discovered.

Re: Canada's top court backs order for Google to remove firm's website from searches

#188
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I touched upon this, but honestly this is a very, very large subject that requires familiarity with the Berne Convention and TRIPS/ACTA in order to fully explain. In the Canadian decision, the de-listing order is contingent on that order not being contrary to compliance requirements elsewhere in the world. However, the SCC doesn't have knowledge of all of those laws, nor should it. Accordingly, it stated the burden u…

I suppose limitations apply by Google's TLD. Why don't Google block by geo-IP? If request comes from Canada, on any Google property, apply the filter. If request comes from China, it has nothing to do with Canada, so they should have nothing to complain about. I don't like geofencing, but this court decision is absurd.

Arguably, Canada can complain about whatever they want (according to their laws), that affects a company that hopes to do business in their country. The US prohibits American companies from selling weapons to it's enemies. By your logic, this transaction, which takes place outside of the US, is none of their business. But you had better believe they make it their business.

Google is free to tell Canada to shove off... if Google doesn't want to do business in Canada anymore. And it's in Canada's best interests to protect their citizens' intellectual property both locally and abroad.

There's nothing "absurd" about this decision. Canada has said that this must be the case if Google does business there. There's a huge issue with people's notions that no country should be able to regulate Google's behavior. The nature of them being an international corporation should not mean they are immune to everyone's laws.

Rather than an international corporation being subject to nobody's laws: International corporations should be required to follow all of them.

Re: Canada's top court backs order for Google to remove firm's website from searches

#189
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Supreme Court did cite the test governing the provision of interlocutory orders. That test is well known law from RJR MacDonald . There's a bit of a blurb regarding the case in my comment below, but you can look up the case and you'll find the full test and commentary. The government isn't proposing anyone do anything; A private party is, and asked for the court's help. The second private party is very clearly ac…

The unfortunate part of that test appears to be that the private party can request the moon. A reasonable person might expect a court that is required "judge what's in front of them" to not apply their judgement to foreign jurisdictions. I wonder how this would be applied to a physical storefront from a global retailer that happened to have presence in Canada...I suppose they'd be forced to remove physical non-Canadi…

Agree 100% that this test sounds like asking someone to prove a negative in order to force action at their expense.

The retailer in this case is Google, and their entire business model rides on being able to ship an information product worldwide - that is, their index.

How is it Google's responsibility to no longer aggregate their index, since they are now expected to deviate from the information generated from the expressions of others' statements, upon which its index was originally based? Is a quotation no longer an acceptable device to publish or derive information, in Canada?

Unless Google is committing a crime by repeating what was said, or pointing to someone who said something, then why is it legally permissible for Canada to order Google to do anything at all here?

Even if Google is citing someone who did something illegally in their index, is it a crime for Google to quote what was said, and to publish the fact that persons said something -- nationally, let alone internationally?

It sounds like this defense was screwed up on two fronts:

1) Where does Canadian law allow anyone to remove or suppress what was recorded in a non-binding quote containing what was previously observed to have been published by others, in a civil trial?

2) Freedom of speech, as a form of detailing quotes in the aggregate, in any other country in the world is not compatible with the idea of removing recorded quotes from the aggregate product of what was internationally found in a survey. That is the precedent. What was and will be found on the internet from the standpoint of other countries Internet connections, does not change just because Canada doesn't like it.

Pursuing #2 seems be the best option since the courts completely breezed over #1. The need to stick to the fundamentals that their product has never actually guaranteed correctness or truth, nationally or internationally. The Google product guarantees an aggregation of quotes. The product attempts to arrive at correctness or truth by algorithmic-ally deriving meaning from the aggregate, not the other way around.

... Google (the product) does not derive the aggregate by manually specifying exceptions one after the other whenever John Doe catches someone lying on the internet. To do so on an international scale would forcefully change Google (the product), not in compliance with any Canadian law (afaik), and not in compliance with any international precedent.

It would be akin to suing a newspaper to have information forcefully removed, in all countries of the world, even though it was published with valid quotes and perfect reporting. If Google (the product) wanted to do this in a way that was respectful of the nature of the request, that it is based on a quote, it would be better to think of the court's decision as being a qualifier on the nature of the information -- "This website may be untrustworthy. (Legal Information: ...). But this request cannot be compelled internationally, because it is not Google's responsibility to ascertain correctness of the contents of a quote. For something that was internationally said of the quote, Google can internationally do with that information whatever they please.

The fact that the Google product is an aggregation of quotes, I think, has escaped the courts. And that may be what they are accidentally glossing over when trying to compel Google to change those quotes, internationally, in a civil trial.

Re: Canada's top court backs order for Google to remove firm's website from searches

#190
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Supreme Court did cite the test governing the provision of interlocutory orders. That test is well known law from RJR MacDonald . There's a bit of a blurb regarding the case in my comment below, but you can look up the case and you'll find the full test and commentary. The government isn't proposing anyone do anything; A private party is, and asked for the court's help. The second private party is very clearly ac…

The unfortunate part of that test appears to be that the private party can request the moon. A reasonable person might expect a court that is required "judge what's in front of them" to not apply their judgement to foreign jurisdictions. I wonder how this would be applied to a physical storefront from a global retailer that happened to have presence in Canada...I suppose they'd be forced to remove physical non-Canadi…

Private parties cannot request the moon. The test for interlocutory orders is HARD to satisfy, and involves substantial expense for litigants to raise. In Canada, if you lose this motion, you're paying half your opponent's legal bills most of the time, too.

You need three things to satisfy the test:

1) a serious issue to be tried 2) irreparable harm if the injunction is not granted 3) that the relief is just on the balance of considerations

Note that irreparable harm and balance of considerations are terms of art, both of which heavily restrict the ambit of what is admissible under those sections of the test, a process which is continually monitored by the development of subsequent jurisprudence.

But even if the injunction test is satisfied,

The physical products hypothetical you're advancing is incomplete and leaves out a number of facts which are instrumental in the court's ruling. Assuming the ruling is applicable outside of those parameters requires that clear arguments be made regarding why changing those parameters isn't a big deal.

As an exercise, try to go through the ruling and pull out each of the factual elements which the court seems to rely upon in coming to their decision. You'll note they rely on a lot of determinations to get to the decision they ultimately arrive at.

Other replies have gracefully dealt with the physical goods analogy more directly: things get ripped off shelves all the time. That's why the Apple v. Samsung cases are so high-stakes.

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