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Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

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Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#141

Post by empath75 »

ohyes wrote: post #46

I think the real question is whether this person is salaried or hourly. If they're hourly, then yeah, billing 40 hours a week when you only did 2 is fraud. If salaried, I think it's okay. Here's why: Individuals in the company will be good or bad, ethical or unethical. The company itself will (likely) be largely amoral and driven solely by a profit motive. So when this person announces that he's automated himself out…

Yeah I spend half my day browsing Reddit on salary, but my work gets done and no one has ever said anything to me about it. And if they did, I'd probably just quit and get a job for a sane company.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#142

Post by danthemanvsqz »

I think the only unethical thing is holding back on the results. It's great to automate tasks and the company doesn't need to know about it unless it is explicitly stated. But your obligation is to deliver high quality results as fast as you can.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#143

Post by buremba »

If he's getting paid for the result, then it's fine but most probably they pay him based on the hours that he works and he fakes it in order to get full wage. That's not ethical as stealing is unacceptable and even if your children are starving.

I would probably tell my employer that I wrote the software during weekends and it's done last week (Since I would probably get fired if I tell them the truth and I will live with the unethical side of this), and it also avoids the human verification which means for them to just get rid of the verification. I would start a company with the the software that I built and offer them monthly based subcription fee to get their work done. You will still getting paid and you cana also sell the software to similar companies.

If he doesn't want to deal with starting company instead spend time with his children, then he can find a business partner that can do the things other than product.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#144

Post by austenallred »

imh wrote: post #21

This question is a beautiful example of typical incentives workers feel and how screwed up they are. On HN people talk often enough about how if you have a worker who gets their job done in 30 hours instead of the company's usual 40-60 hours, you should give them 30-100% more responsibility, but much more rarely "and 30-100% more pay." Butt-in-the-chair hours are super important culturally and it's been that way for…

It seems the greater question is, "What is the employer paying for?"

Economic theory suggests an employer pays for value created. After all, if an employee is generating less economic value than they're consuming, it makes sense to fire that person. But that's only true in a fantasy world where you can perfectly measure and compensate that kind of performance, like performing physics equations without air resistance or friction.

The reality is that calculating "value created" is extraordinarily difficult, so we tend to use "hours-of-butt-in-seat" because it's the closest proxy.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#146

Post by ocschwar »

icebraining wrote: post #128
jsjohnst wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it shows willful deception. In a court of law, this would likely be a significant point in the case.

What law would he be breaking?

It would be a tort.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#147

Post by jerrylives »

austenallred wrote: post #144
imh wrote: post #21

This question is a beautiful example of typical incentives workers feel and how screwed up they are. On HN people talk often enough about how if you have a worker who gets their job done in 30 hours instead of the company's usual 40-60 hours, you should give them 30-100% more responsibility, but much more rarely "and 30-100% more pay." Butt-in-the-chair hours are super important culturally and it's been that way for…

It seems the greater question is, "What is the employer paying for?" Economic theory suggests an employer pays for value created. After all, if an employee is generating less economic value than they're consuming, it makes sense to fire that person. But that's only true in a fantasy world where you can perfectly measure and compensate that kind of performance, like performing physics equations without air resistance…

Closest, or easiest?

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#148

Post by vesrah »

Kenji wrote: post #112
owenmarshall wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flip your premise around a bit: what kind of world do you live in where "obscure code" makes it to a production environment after hours? Do you not do code reviews to ensure good quality? Do you not test your releases before launch? Do you not have a release strategy that allows you to launch code when people are in the office ? Why aren't you fixing that rather than blaming your coworkers?

I am fixing, but I am one person with one brain and two hands.

It's time to move on, kindred soul.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#149

Post by abramz »

ohyes wrote: post #46

I think the real question is whether this person is salaried or hourly. If they're hourly, then yeah, billing 40 hours a week when you only did 2 is fraud. If salaried, I think it's okay. Here's why: Individuals in the company will be good or bad, ethical or unethical. The company itself will (likely) be largely amoral and driven solely by a profit motive. So when this person announces that he's automated himself out…

So the guy is acting ethically because tit for tat? Fuck no

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#150

Post by mcrad »

I have worked at enough places where "appearing busy" is rewarded far more than being efficient and truly productive. This seems to be where we're headed as a middle management society and it sucks. Ethical behavior would mean doing whatever you can to reduce such perverse incentives (venturing a guess that means keep your mouth shut in this case).
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