Live data from Hacker News

USPS loses millions each year on local delivery of mail from abroad (2014)

washingtonpost.com

151–160 of 170 posts

Re: USPS loses millions each year on local delivery of mail from abroad (2014)

#151
Nice case of peering agreements in the real world!

(Of course these peering agreements come from a postal union treaty rather that individual 1:1 agreements among private parties, but really they are the same thing).

The number of routes is small enough that there's no need for postal BGP :-)

Re: USPS loses millions each year on local delivery of mail from abroad (2014)

#152

The US postal service has had an inaccurate price model forever. Bulk mail (junk mail) has always been way cheaper to send than first class. It's for the same reason - they act like delivery is almost no-cost. They assume the system is already in place, that someone will swing by your home daily to drop stuff off and pick stuff up. Then adding an item to the pile is really of little consequence. The reality though (f…

Actually I think the article is just PR. While the post offices in north America and Europe deliver Chinese goods at no cost, at the same time Chinese people send millions of very expensive packages to China.

For example Chinese parents who are well off want to have genuine baby food from western countries since the milk powder scandal that hit China a few years ago. They pay tremendous surcharges for a package of baby food and it must be sent from the west.

The same goes for luxury goods. You want to be sure to get a genuine Louis Vuitton bag? Get someone you know to buy it in France and have it shipped to you. The French postal office will cash in 50€ while the costs are certainly far below that.

Re: USPS loses millions each year on local delivery of mail from abroad (2014)

#153
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, delivery costs in Europe are basically nil. You can ship a package in 3 days all across the EU for under 4€ with DHL. I know, because I’ve done so several times. Stuff that’s small enough to fit in a letter even for 80ct across the entire EU in 2 days. In fact, the domestic shipping market in the EU is actually cheaper than getting international parcels.

I got curious, and indeed looks like a package in Germany is domestically 4€ and within EU 8.89€. However, when sending a small package from Finland it's 22€ domestic and 40€ to Germany with DHL. So a disclaimer to my original claim: applies only to a subset of European countries.

Actually, that’s what you get via the website. In-Store, they’ll be able to offer you a reduced rate costing half of what they offer online. I had assumed the same, and was expecting to pay ~9€, but the employee in the DHL store recommended me the cheaper solution.

And so I shipped a bunch of HDDs from Germany to the Netherlands in 3 days for 3.40€

And if you’re a company, you get a ~90% discount even. The cost isn’t in shipping, but in the employees in the store picking up your package. Pre-Sorted packages delivered directly to a hub are really cheap.

Re: USPS loses millions each year on local delivery of mail from abroad (2014)

#154
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the core of the argument is that this isn't pure capitalist economics; the government is essentially subsidizing China's ability to compete in America. It'd be one thing if China could make it and ship it for legitimately cheaper, but abusing a treaty loophole in USPS regulations isn't the same. That's an unfair advantage. There's also a second argument at play: If China can make a product for $10 cheaper, legiti…

As to your second argument, I'm still not sure why it is legal to buy or own materials in the US created by human rights abuse. Let's take a case of a Chinese good produced by political slaves in prison. By buying or owning that good, a person is financially supporting the abuse that went into creating that good. Same applies for something that is produced for cheaper due to an ability to pollute in ways that aren't…

What about in a place with no unions? No minimum wage? No workers rights?

Re: USPS loses millions each year on local delivery of mail from abroad (2014)

#155
I simply don't buy from Chinese sellers on ebay. I sort by location distance and then work my way through that list or lowest price and skip china entries. I am not waiting 3-6 weeks for something just to save $2. Lets be honest, something that cheap, isn't even worth shipping back if its broken ( and most of the time they will just ship another ).

Re: USPS loses millions each year on local delivery of mail from abroad (2014)

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loophole isn't unidirectional. It can make the China Post deliver many letters to small villages in China. The problem is that no one on those villages are interested in paying some small price to receive a thing from America.

In theory it is not unidirectional, in practice it is. When it was written, all they really had to go on was theory.

Hum... put yourself back in the 60's. Imagine you're signing a contract that says "I, the Postal Service of the country NNN, will deliver any letter that comes from any country to any city that I reach, no matter if it'll cost a 3 hours plane flight to deliver a 1 oz envelope".

Fast forward to 2017, yes, now the agreement seems unfair because the deliver of goods changed a lot. Perhaps should be reviewed. But I wouldn't say it just worked on theory back then, neither will I say that now it is unidirectional in practice (because you still can make it go in any direction).

And the main point isn't just that things made in China are cheaper. It's that China has so much freight going to all parts of the world that putting one container full of envelops with a single button inside doesn't cost a thing, so they win in on how much it costs to take an envelop from a post office inside China and deliver it to a USA / Europe / South America port.

It costs about US 1,900 to take a container from Shangai to New York (source: https://www.searates.com ). That is cheap.

Re: USPS loses millions each year on local delivery of mail from abroad (2014)

#157

> “But when people buy direct from China that’s adding nothing to the American economy.” Wait a minute... This argument doesn't make any sense. The post office is delivering to a US citizen that supports said postal services through paying taxes. If they choose to purchase from China, Amazon, or eBay that is their choice. Maybe people who are not citizens and have not paid any taxes benefit from this but I suspect th…

The postal service is not taxpayer funded!

Yes, they are indicated in the Constitution, and they must service each and every little town, and they must go to Congress to gain approval for rate increases, but they are not supported by any tax revenue.

https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-facts/top-10-things...

Re: USPS loses millions each year on local delivery of mail from abroad (2014)

#158
post #5

> All of this is little comfort to McGrath, who chafes at the thought of the Postal Service helping Chinese merchants poach his customers. “All of us sellers are selling a lot of Chinese goods in America but at least we’re creating jobs, making money, and adding to the economy,” he said. “But when people buy direct from China that’s adding nothing to the American economy.” I understand the seller's frustration - thei…

Subsidizing lettermail from poor countries seems reasonable. I might have to work for half an hour to earn enough to pay postage to anywhere in the world; it's undesirable for the recipient to have to pay three months' wages to send me a reply.

Subsidizing businesses abroad seems less desirable, especially if it costs us millions of dollars a year. That should just be part of the price of the good, whether or not it goes through a US intermediary. Instead we have this weird system where purchases directly from China are subsidized by taxes, but domestic purchases are "full price".

Re: USPS loses millions each year on local delivery of mail from abroad (2014)

#159

> “But when people buy direct from China that’s adding nothing to the American economy.” Wait a minute... This argument doesn't make any sense. The post office is delivering to a US citizen that supports said postal services through paying taxes. If they choose to purchase from China, Amazon, or eBay that is their choice. Maybe people who are not citizens and have not paid any taxes benefit from this but I suspect th…

The postal service is not taxpayer funded! Yes, they are indicated in the Constitution, and they must service each and every little town, and they must go to Congress to gain approval for rate increases, but they are not supported by any tax revenue. https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-facts/top-10-things...

Yes, I was mistaken. Thank you for the clarification.

In a way, that makes the original complaint even more ridiculous because it is literally a business transaction between two private entities and a private intermediary.

Re: USPS loses millions each year on local delivery of mail from abroad (2014)

#160
When you buy from a US seller, you're buying time.

A typical ePacket is about 7 to 14 days from shipment, while first class mail is generally about 3 days from shipment. China Post is worse, anywhere from 30 to 60 days is common. Yanwen economic mail is similar, as are the litany of other carriers used to exploit shipping restrictions on batteries and other items.

Is it a great model? Maybe not, especially for more expensive items. But for low cost, low value items shipped only via china post, there will always be a US based box-shifter willing to collect that 20% premium on time.

Post reply on HN