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Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

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Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#11

Post by infimum »

davidw wrote: post #7
jstanley wrote: post #3

Neither he nor the company would be better off if he were still doing it manually. I don't know whether I think it's ethical or not overall, but it's at least a more optimal situation than if he had continued spending 8 hours a day updating spreadsheets by hand. He's doing a better job than he was before, for the same price, and he gets more free time. Everyone's a winner. Admittedly, he is a winner by quite a bit mo…

> free time The employer is paying for that time, so... he should be doing something for the company. Ideally, he'd tell them of his accomplishment and get a raise and a job helping other people automate their jobs, or something like that.

> Ideally, he'd tell them of his accomplishment and get a raise and a job helping other people

realistically he'll get fired because they don't need him anymore. his wages are booked as profit and distributed among shareholders ,-)

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#12

Post by Tarrosion »

dgut wrote: post #8

You get to spend more time with your son. In a country with a terrible maternity and paternity leave policy, it's morally right to do whatever possible to spend more time with one's children. You are doing a great service to the country, as your child will turn out to be a more mentally healthy adult. Just for that reason (besides that you are providing value to your employer), keep going!

> In a country with a terrible maternity and paternity leave policy, it's morally right to do whatever possible ...

This seems like quite a slippery slope. Who gets to decide what counts as an acceptable maternity/paternity leave policy? And surely you don't mean it's morally right to do literally whatever possible. Suppose I show up at my boss' house at night with a gun and tell her than unless she keeps paying me full wages as I spend all my time with my family, I'll shoot her. Is that okay? (I hope not!)

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#13

Post by threesixandnine »

Tarrosion wrote: post #12
dgut wrote: post #8

You get to spend more time with your son. In a country with a terrible maternity and paternity leave policy, it's morally right to do whatever possible to spend more time with one's children. You are doing a great service to the country, as your child will turn out to be a more mentally healthy adult. Just for that reason (besides that you are providing value to your employer), keep going!

> In a country with a terrible maternity and paternity leave policy, it's morally right to do whatever possible ... This seems like quite a slippery slope. Who gets to decide what counts as an acceptable maternity/paternity leave policy? And surely you don't mean it's morally right to do literally whatever possible. Suppose I show up at my boss' house at night with a gun and tell her than unless she keeps paying me f…

Stretching it a little bit here are you, now?

The guy figured out how to automate his job when no one else before him did it. Let the small guy get the fruit once in awhile. What do you think they will do if he tells them? As he said, they will just take the software and get rid of him. They won't even ask themselves if it is morally right or wrong. I say keep the good work and spend the time with your son. I wish I could automate my job that way and scratch my balls the whole day, even at the office...

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#14

Post by crispyambulance »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

They haven't just automated the job - they've deliberately inserted errors to make it look like a human made them. That's a big step over the line into fraudulent behavior.

"Fraud" is a _really_ strong word.

Intention matters greatly in situations where someone is doing something which may be interpreted as duplicitous.

This is someone who is in a situation that not many people have experienced. He has the integrity to think out loud about his actions and bring them into question for himself and others.

I think he should come clean about the automation to his employer (he doesn't have to say its been going on for 6 months, of course). Unless the employer is a total ghoul, it is unlikely that this would get him into trouble.

If the story is true, the guy is NOT a fraudster. There are vastly more unethical things to worry about than a clever guy who puts VBA macros to good use.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#15

Post by Eyas »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

They haven't just automated the job - they've deliberately inserted errors to make it look like a human made them. That's a big step over the line into fraudulent behavior.

They inserted errors in the first "drafts" submitted, not the final result to be submitted. I feel like that makes a difference.

There is some manipulation going on, but there seems to be a difference between submitting a code review with bugs inserted on purpose, and shipping code with bugs inserted on purpose.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#16

Post by threesixandnine »

davidw wrote: post #7
jstanley wrote: post #3

Neither he nor the company would be better off if he were still doing it manually. I don't know whether I think it's ethical or not overall, but it's at least a more optimal situation than if he had continued spending 8 hours a day updating spreadsheets by hand. He's doing a better job than he was before, for the same price, and he gets more free time. Everyone's a winner. Admittedly, he is a winner by quite a bit mo…

> free time The employer is paying for that time, so... he should be doing something for the company. Ideally, he'd tell them of his accomplishment and get a raise and a job helping other people automate their jobs, or something like that.

No. He is working remotely and the employer is paying for getting the job done.

There is no way of something ideally happening in this case.

The amount of taking the higher moral ground on Stack and here (in only a few minutes) is laughable. He is a single parent trying to get things working for him and his son. He is even questioning himself about this. This puts him into 5% of the honest population. I am old enough to know that internet warriors of higher moral in real life are mostly, I say mostly scumbags who would do much worse than this guy.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#17

Post by Eyas »

crispyambulance wrote: post #14
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

They haven't just automated the job - they've deliberately inserted errors to make it look like a human made them. That's a big step over the line into fraudulent behavior.

"Fraud" is a _really_ strong word. Intention matters greatly in situations where someone is doing something which may be interpreted as duplicitous. This is someone who is in a situation that not many people have experienced. He has the integrity to think out loud about his actions and bring them into question for himself and others. I think he should come clean about the automation to his employer (he doesn't have t…

The employer can choose to fire them, not because they are in trouble, but because they are no longer needed. I'm surprised you don't think that is likely.

I would bet most companies are interested in reducing "waste" by not hiring people no longer needed. The way the OP talks about the company, it seems like they have no need for actual developers.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#18

Post by collyw »

ceejayoz wrote: post #2

They haven't just automated the job - they've deliberately inserted errors to make it look like a human made them. That's a big step over the line into fraudulent behavior.

But it still contains less errors than if he had done it manually, as they think he does.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#19

Post by baron816 »

I had pretty much automated a past job and when I quit to try to become a software engineer, they asked me for advice for hiring my replacement (what they should be looking for, etc.). I told them not to hire anyone and that I had hardly been doing anything for months. They hired someone to replace me anyway.

Re: Is it unethical for me to not tell my employer I've automated my job?

#20

Post by dragonwriter »

crispyambulance wrote: post #14
ceejayoz wrote: post #2

They haven't just automated the job - they've deliberately inserted errors to make it look like a human made them. That's a big step over the line into fraudulent behavior.

"Fraud" is a _really_ strong word. Intention matters greatly in situations where someone is doing something which may be interpreted as duplicitous. This is someone who is in a situation that not many people have experienced. He has the integrity to think out loud about his actions and bring them into question for himself and others. I think he should come clean about the automation to his employer (he doesn't have t…

> "Fraud" is a _really_ strong word.

It's also the correct word; he is seeking to obtain value from another party by material misrepresentation of the facts.

> I think he should come clean about the automation to his employer (he doesn't have to say its been going on for 6 months, of course). Unless the employer is a total ghoul, it is unlikely that this would get him into trouble.

Well, without the intentional introduction of errors, I would agree with you. With that, I think lots of employers would say “Good job on the automation, but you are terminated, for cause, for the deliberate sabotage.”

> If the story is true, the guy is NOT a fraudster.

If the story is true, the guy chose to become a fraudster as a precaution against the risk that the automation might not be appreciated.

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