Ask HN: As an employee of a company, how do you assess its health? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: As an employee of a company, how do you assess its health?

#131

Post by corobo » Wed, Jun 28, 2017, 4:38 PM UTC

logfromblammo wrote: post #126

corobo wrote: post #26

I generally work for smaller companies, Health note: Employee churn when churn is not the norm. Health warning: Certain people leaving with enough business knowledge it's noticeable they're gone Health crisis: Multiple health warnings in quick succession (within 2 years). At warning level I make sure my CV is updated and start setting up job alerts. At crisis I'm actively applying for jobs to keep my options wide ope…

I'd actually counsel updating the resume every 6 months and applying to at least one job posting with it, just to get a sense of the local job scene. And even if your current company is fine, you might get the chance to switch to one that is better. At the very least, you get some interview practice, which never hurts. One does get slightly paranoid after getting laid off with only 3 days notice and no severance, one…

I do try to keep it up to date every so often - though saying that I've been in my current job over a year and haven't touched it.. - those yellow and red flags definitely trigger a more urgent need to update it

HN being the global sort of place I (and others) should really mention where I'm at - in the UK at least short of anything that gets me fired on the spot I know I'll have a month's notice if I do need to start looking so that does give a bit of complacency as it's in writing in my contract.

Having said that it couldn't hurt to keep the eyes open, the job I've got now was a lucky gem of a find

Re: Ask HN: As an employee of a company, how do you assess its health?

#132

Post by bpyne » Wed, Jun 28, 2017, 4:43 PM UTC

A good bellwether for a startup is the sales force. They leave when there is no more money-making opportunity.

(Of course, a startup can still pivot to uncover opportunity.)

Re: Ask HN: As an employee of a company, how do you assess its health?

#133

Post by ThrustVectoring » Wed, Jun 28, 2017, 4:48 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #77

I've given another answer, but on the meta level, it shouldn't matter to you if a company is doing well. The only thing that should matter is are you learning skills for which there is a market? Getting in the mindset that your "job" does not determine your well being but your skills do. That mindset presupposes a few things: A) that you always have your finger on the market and the skills that are in demand B) your…

Having a job helps tremendously in negotiating a salary. BATNA is continuing to work at your current pay, rather than living off savings.

Re: Ask HN: As an employee of a company, how do you assess its health?

#134

Post by urethrafranklin » Wed, Jun 28, 2017, 4:56 PM UTC

darioush wrote: post #130

urethrafranklin wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't disagree more. With this mindset why not throw all your employees in a basement and stack them up on picnic tables? If you're not scrimping on every possible front, you're not a proper business? There are plenty of sectors that have nice offices with snacks and drinks, by the way. It's always better to invest in growth than to fake it by shaving the budget. When human niceties start getting pared away, it's…

which part of open-floor plan do you not understand?

Cubicles getting ripped out to make way for open plan would also be a negative indicator.

Re: Ask HN: As an employee of a company, how do you assess its health?

#135

Post by draw_down » Wed, Jun 28, 2017, 4:58 PM UTC

arien wrote: post #89

fnbr wrote: post #67

There's a great article on this topic from Steve Blank: https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-ear... He argues that a leading indicator is when free food/drinks are removed, as it's a sign that the company is moving from a growth, "we're all in it together" mentality to a cost-cutting one. I, personally, focus on who's getting promoted and who's leaving. If a company is promoting internally and ret…

When I read things like this, I like to take a moment to realise how fortunate we are to work in a sector where something like freebies is almost considered to be a sacred right. Is there any other profession or sector where they get the same treatment? I don't think removing or reducing these benefits is a sign of poor health. I think it's more a sign of turning into a proper business (which needs to answer to the p…

Sure, just keep in mind what the people running these companies are helping themselves to.

Re: Ask HN: As an employee of a company, how do you assess its health?

#136

Post by vinceguidry » Wed, Jun 28, 2017, 5:02 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #121

vinceguidry wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly, your skills provide a layer of security, ensuring that you don't starve. But once you have this, and it's really not that hard to do once you have a few years in your industry, then you need to start on the next safety net of ensuring you don't get ripped away from your daily routine at a moment's notice. This is where keeping a finger on what your organization is doing really helps out with. If you can do…

For example, if I caught wind that the company was being reorganized I have a great relationship with my manager, he lets me run the development side as I see fit for the most part, I'm privy to a lot of information because of my role,but he couldn't tell me anything about a reorg until it was announced to everyone. I understand that perfectly.

If I found the company really wanted to keep me out of the loop then I'll assume that I'm not a part of the new direction and plan accordingly. They can let me know what they want from me when I put my new job offer down on his desk.

If I'm a new employee then sure, it's new enough to where my life hasn't settled yet. But after I've been there a year or so, a reorg is basically already like getting another job. If I'm not a part of that process then I'm going to regain control of my destiny myself.

Re: Ask HN: As an employee of a company, how do you assess its health?

#137

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Jun 28, 2017, 5:10 PM UTC

vinceguidry wrote: post #136

scarface74 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, if I caught wind that the company was being reorganized I have a great relationship with my manager, he lets me run the development side as I see fit for the most part, I'm privy to a lot of information because of my role,but he couldn't tell me anything about a reorg until it was announced to everyone. I understand that perfectly.

If I found the company really wanted to keep me out of the loop then I'll assume that I'm not a part of the new direction and plan accordingly. They can let me know what they want from me when I put my new job offer down on his desk. If I'm a new employee then sure, it's new enough to where my life hasn't settled yet. But after I've been there a year or so, a reorg is basically already like getting another job. If I'…

That hasnt been my experience. Maybe it's my ego, but I always go in thinking that I'm good at what I do and that I will be the last man standing, I survived three rounds of layoffs at a former company, was laid off when the company laid off everyone but four people when it was acquired, and even then I negotiated a deal to work as a contractor for one of our customers. The company was very up front about its prospects.

The next time around, during a reorganization at another company, I not only wasn't laid off, I got a promotion. I don't think I play politics I just know how to be effective.

Re: Ask HN: As an employee of a company, how do you assess its health?

#138

Post by awkward » Wed, Jun 28, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

mljoe wrote: post #97

awkward wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any rollback of free food perks is a bad sign. It's not always a sign of bad health, but if it's not it means the company is softly lowering the status of it's rank and file in order to put in another layer of management.

Does this often happen? Saving money on lunch might delay a company's failure for a week at best. My perspective is most startups will maintain all benefits until the bitter end explicitly to avoid giving their employees this kind of impression. Hints like this might cause critical employees to jump ship during a financial crunch time.

It's a surprisingly good leading indicator.

Re: Ask HN: As an employee of a company, how do you assess its health?

#139

Post by Bartweiss » Wed, Jun 28, 2017, 5:21 PM UTC

arien wrote: post #89

fnbr wrote: post #67

There's a great article on this topic from Steve Blank: https://steveblank.com/2009/12/21/the-elves-leave-middle-ear... He argues that a leading indicator is when free food/drinks are removed, as it's a sign that the company is moving from a growth, "we're all in it together" mentality to a cost-cutting one. I, personally, focus on who's getting promoted and who's leaving. If a company is promoting internally and ret…

When I read things like this, I like to take a moment to realise how fortunate we are to work in a sector where something like freebies is almost considered to be a sacred right. Is there any other profession or sector where they get the same treatment? I don't think removing or reducing these benefits is a sign of poor health. I think it's more a sign of turning into a proper business (which needs to answer to the p…

> I don't think removing or reducing these benefits is a sign of poor health.

I think this is a very different statement than "it doesn't have to be a bad sign". Leaving aside the question other people addressed of whether freebies are good business, the fact of the matter is that they're currently commonplace. If a company gets rid of those benefits without a clear trigger (like an acquisition by someone more corporate, or C-level turnover), the question to ask is why?

Is it likely that the executives who previously offered freebies attended a leadership seminar and decided it would be more professional to take them away? Or is it more likely that the trajectory is bad, and snacks looked like a responsible first target for budget cuts?

The question here isn't "what's a responsible first cut for a struggling company?" On that point, I agree, cutting snacks before staff is probably a sensible business decision. The question is "what's a warning sign that the company is struggling and you don't know it?" I think empirically, cutting freebies without a clear cause is definitely a sign of poor health.

Re: Ask HN: As an employee of a company, how do you assess its health?

#140

Post by JSeymourATL » Wed, Jun 28, 2017, 5:21 PM UTC

hodgesrm wrote: post #116

gwbas1c wrote: post #87

TLDR: You assess health by if you're getting paid what you think it's worth to stay in the job. If you're okay with the pay, and you like the job, be a pro and stay as long as the pay comes in. A big warning sign was that my employer interview great candidates, make offers, and then the candidate didn't accept. The problem was that we weren't paying competitively. I tried to express this to upper management, and then…

"There's a lot to be said for sticking through a few months of uncertainty when it works out to be a great job in the long run." This. You have to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em. It's not easy with startups to decide which way to go due to the uncertainty inherent in new businesses. I would tend toward hold if the following is true: 1.) The company is meeting a real market need even if it's not doing…

> The company is meeting a real market need even if it's not doing it very well.

Excellent point. I might add, how are renewals & new customer sales? If that info isn't widely shared, take the sales guy out to a pub for lunch. A few beers can provide huge insights.