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Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#201

Post by marchenko »

Cyph0n wrote: post #84

I'm always interested to see how people react to a news article or study that criticizes alcohol. I have noticed over time that alcohol consumption is usually a taboo subject to discuss for some reason, and almost everyone I talk to immediately gets on the defensive when I say that I don't drink and never will. Can anyone shed some light on why exactly people don't like it when someone doesn't drink, especially when…

I think people fear that the heavy hand of the state - or employers wielding powerful economic incentives - will come down on alcohol as it did on tobacco. Once something is declared "unhealthy" there is strong pressure to eliminate it, as health and productivity are the twin goods of modern society. I'm a nonsmoker, but I feel for that group of smokers (mostly pipe and cigar afficionados) that have had one of their major pleasures curtailed.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#202

Post by Bakary »

loeber wrote: post #194
surement wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here's to hoping they cancel out! It's funny but it's probably fairly accurate. Two 12oz 5% beers per day is not exactly extreme, and evidently many people drink 'this much' without terrible consequences. Articles like this cater mostly to people who are obsessed with articles like this.

> evidently many people drink 'this much' without terrible consequences This assumption reflects an underlying statistical bias: if most people you know exhibit this behavior, then that's what you see as normal. It may very well be the case that the consequences are actually terrible -- they're just hard for you to perceive because they're normalized by everyone exhibiting them.

There's an allegorical story by Bostrom (the author of Superintelligence) which explores this concept as it relates to our short lifespans.

http://www.nickbostrom.com/fable/dragon.html

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#203

Post by mercer »

anigbrowl wrote: post #155
capkutay wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would consider moderate drinking to be 4-5 drinks a week (drinking socially weekends). 2 drinks/night is practically getting drunk/tipsy every night. In what world is that moderate?

I usually drink a bottle of beer with dinner and I don't think this makes me any kind of heavy drinker. I'm probably doing more subtle long-term damage to my body from drinking 4-5 large cups of tea every day.

What's the downside of tea? I always thought it was pretty harmless (especially green tea).

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#204

Post by Bakary »

Cyph0n wrote: post #84

I'm always interested to see how people react to a news article or study that criticizes alcohol. I have noticed over time that alcohol consumption is usually a taboo subject to discuss for some reason, and almost everyone I talk to immediately gets on the defensive when I say that I don't drink and never will. Can anyone shed some light on why exactly people don't like it when someone doesn't drink, especially when…

Alcohol has a social function that goes far beyond drunkenness itself. It's used as a bonding tool or as a way to establish trust (In vino veritas?) and determines how a large portion of recreational time is spent. It can signal cultural identities and social class, and so can the absence of drink. For instance, some religions forbid inebriation and some countries and classes have an extensively developed interest in specific forms of alcohol. Lastly, there is a complex moral aspect to consumption that can leave drinkers in a hostile mood if confronted by someone who doesn't drink, even if that person had the best intentions. This is especially true if you add your prediction that you will never drink in the future.

I'm sure I'm overlooking a few things but if you put this all together it's unsurprising that you encountered negative appraisals of your own lifestyle and that this study was met with doubt.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#205

Post by nurettin »

magicalist wrote: post #64
hamstercat wrote: post #5

I'd be interested to know what 3 times more mean. If your chance of brain damage is 0.5% normally and jumps to 1.5% with moderate drinking, that isn't too bad. If it jumps to 10% to 30% that's another story.

Yeah, I hate when they do leave that out. If I'm reading Table 3 in the study correctly, when accounting for a bunch of possible variables (sex, age, exercise, etc), for every 10 units of alcohol consumed per week over 30 years you'd expect to see .19% decrease in hippocampal volume (0.08% to 0.30% decrease at 95% CI)

Now all that remains is to figure out how much reduction in hippocampal volume turns you into donald duck.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#206

Post by Bakary »

mothers wrote: post #21

would you give a 5 year old a beer? no? exactly. everyone knows drinking is bad for you. they do it anyway, because "reasons" [1] anyone who disagrees is just being irrational. [1] which may include partying and hooking up, as well as removing any awkwardness they have.

This reminds me of a joke I once saved:

A patient asks his doctor: "Do you think I will live to be 80?"

The doctor asks: "Do you smoke or drink?"

"Oh no," he replies. "I don't do drugs, either."

"Do you have many friends and entertain frequently?"

"No, I usually stay home and keep to myself".

"Do you eat rib-eye steaks and barbecued ribs?"

He says, "No, my other doctor said that all red meat is unhealthy!"

"Do you spend a lot of time in the sun, like playing golf, sailing, hiking, or bicycling?"

"No, I don't," he replies.

"Do you gamble, drive fast cars, or have a lot of sex?"

"No," He says. "I don't do any of those things."

The doctor looks at him and says: "Then why do you care?"

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#207

Post by Bakary »

TimMurnaghan wrote: post #30

Seriously, stop linking to sources that block adblockers. As far as I'm concerned they've taken themselves off the web.

To play devil's advocate, as far as they are themselves concerned, you have taken yourself off the web as a source of revenue they are willing to cater to. What possible incentive could they have to comply with those demands?

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#208

Post by CalRobert »

yangyang wrote: post #167
Symbiote wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One British pint is 568mL, and one "unit" of alcohol is 10mL -- I think the latter might be a European standard. That makes a ½pt (284mL) beer, at 3.5%, almost exactly 10mL of alcohol (284*0.035 = 9.94). The average beer is stronger than it was 20 years ago, but there's still a feeling that 1pt = 2 units in Britain.

> The average beer is stronger than it was 20 years ago I very much doubt this. High strength lagers are much less popular than they were 20 years ago, not least because of beer tax that scales with strength. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11455150/Britain...

This is probably very, very regional.

IPA's have grown in popularity, for what it's worth, and are generally higher alcohol (5-6% in UK, 7-10% in the US).

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#209

Post by DanBC »

asciimo wrote: post #139
capkutay wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would consider moderate drinking to be 4-5 drinks a week (drinking socially weekends). 2 drinks/night is practically getting drunk/tipsy every night. In what world is that moderate?

Congratulations, you are not an alcoholic!

People who drink 2 drinks a night are not dependent drinkers either.

This study is not about people dependent on alcohol. It's about people who drink at or slightly above the recommended limits (When the study started the limits were 21 drinks a week for men).

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