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Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#171

Post by epistasis »

gabrielgoh wrote: post #131
epistasis wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this setting, "risk factor" means "associated." It does not mean causes, and it really misinforms the public to jump to that. Even if the authors strongly suggest causation, but stop short, the most that should go in the headline is "Study strong suggests that moderate drinking causes.." Jumping to conclusions in the popular press hurts the reputation of scientists. Journalists and editors have been doing this for…

Fair point about the risk factor. I take the edit back! But I think our disagreement is philosophical. Ultimately I feel much of medical research is prescriptive - and thus there is no misrepresentation, except perhaps amount of uncertainty that is associated with these studies. I think hese uncertainties are poorly communicated by scientists themselves, and just appending "maybe" to every headline adds very little t…

Yes, I agree that we probably disagree on philosophical grounds. I would definitely favor a more bland article of maybes than one that was more bold. Perhaps I'm one of those scientists that's bad at communicating, but the uncertainty is where there are discoveries to be made, and I tend to focus on it :)

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#172

Post by wutbrodo »

frankquestions wrote: post #122
Symbiote wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One British pint is 568mL, and one "unit" of alcohol is 10mL -- I think the latter might be a European standard. That makes a ½pt (284mL) beer, at 3.5%, almost exactly 10mL of alcohol (284*0.035 = 9.94). The average beer is stronger than it was 20 years ago, but there's still a feeling that 1pt = 2 units in Britain.

Wow. 3.5% beer...is almost unheard of in the USA, especially in the face of the overwhelming popularity of “craft” and “micro” brews which often click in above the 6% mark

This is very very wrong. You should be hesitant to extrapolate so wildly from your bubble.

The timing and circumstances of when I started drinking means I've only ever drunk craft beer, but I'm also aware that where i live is not representative f the country. Craft beer has a 12% share of the US's beer market. "Overwhelming popularity" is just flat wrong.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#173

Post by wutbrodo »

prodmerc wrote: post #46
haswell wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't get beyond the paywall, but did they mention which sort of beer? Standard Bud/Miller products? Using a 12 oz beer as a starting point doesn't mean much in a craft beer world with most "good" beers ranging from 5-8% ABV. Edit: not really understanding the downvotes? Alcohol content is extremely important in understanding the meaning of a "drink". Not trying to be pedantic, but now more than ever, "a beer" i…

Every time I ask what defines a "drink" in absolute terms of alcohol content I get downvoted too.

A good rule of thumb that my college alcohol edu used was a 12 oz beer, 4 oz glass of wine, and 1.5 oz shot all equaled one drink, at 4,12,and 36% respectively. You'll obviously need to adjust for those numbers but it has always helped anchor me (even though I haven't had a 4% beer since college).

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#174

Post by wutbrodo »

capkutay wrote: post #121
startupdiscuss wrote: post #4

But they define "moderate" as 2 drinks/day for a man. That is 14 drinks a week which puts you in the second highest decile for Americans! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...

I would consider moderate drinking to be 4-5 drinks a week (drinking socially weekends). 2 drinks/night is practically getting drunk/tipsy every night. In what world is that moderate?

I think alcohol is a pretty horrible drug so I try to minimize my intake, but I know a fair few people who reach this without any behaviors that seem out of the ordinary. 6-8 drinks on a Friday night (this is about what I'd drink back when I used to go to bars), and then one or two drinks scattered across the rest of the evening: beer/wine with dinner or scorch afterwards or a mimosa or two with brunch. Especially when you take into account that a bottle of 6-8% beer is quite a bit more than a single standard drink.

That only involves "getting drunk" once a week, which I think a lot of people consider pretty moderate.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#175

Post by mothers »

EpicEng wrote: post #151
mothers wrote: post #21

would you give a 5 year old a beer? no? exactly. everyone knows drinking is bad for you. they do it anyway, because "reasons" [1] anyone who disagrees is just being irrational. [1] which may include partying and hooking up, as well as removing any awkwardness they have.

I bet you're a load of fun. Yes, we know that alcohol is generally not great, but that doesn't mean there's no value in quantifying what "not great means". What was the point of your comment exactly? You sound like a bitter old man who never got invited to parties.

> I bet you're a load of fun. Yes, we know that alcohol is generally not great, but that doesn't mean there's no value in quantifying what "not great means". What was the point of your comment exactly? You sound like a bitter old man who never got invited to parties.

so you attack the person when you have nothing to say, eh? and no, we don't know, hence the discussion. contribute or move along.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#176

Post by nashashmi »

codyb wrote: post #41

Alcohol is getting a pretty bad rap to me the more I read about it. After reading this I was curious about ways to _increase_ hippocampal function. According to [0] it seems like exercise can increase hippocampal function. Another link I can't find again since I found it on my phone and am now on my laptop indicated things like learning languages, and an omega 3 rich diet can also help. This is good news for me since…

Hoping they cancel out?

Ever thought about what would happen if you benefitted from one without getting the loss from the other.

Pure efficiency don't you think? Get more from less. Spend less time doing destructive things. Be less comatose and more alert... Or does all that hurt you!?

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#177

Post by intro-b »

gozur88 wrote: post #100
hellofunk wrote: post #68

I guess you need to decide what is important to you. For example, a few years ago, this was published [0]: > One of the most contentious issues in the vast literature about alcohol consumption has been the consistent finding that those who don't drink tend to die sooner than those who do http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2017200...

It's a safer bet that healthy people are more likely to be moderate drinkers than it is to assume moderate drinking will extend your life.

I wonder if there's also a social component with moderate drinking along with other factors; being able to enjoy drinks with colleagues after work or catch up with friends at a bar are culturally acceptable activities that seem to align with the relationship between a close social circle and longevity/health, especially amongst middle age and older adults.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#179

Post by TylerE »

wutbrodo wrote: post #172
frankquestions wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. 3.5% beer...is almost unheard of in the USA, especially in the face of the overwhelming popularity of “craft” and “micro” brews which often click in above the 6% mark

This is very very wrong. You should be hesitant to extrapolate so wildly from your bubble. The timing and circumstances of when I started drinking means I've only ever drunk craft beer, but I'm also aware that where i live is not representative f the country. Craft beer has a 12% share of the US's beer market. "Overwhelming popularity" is just flat wrong.

3.5 is still really low. Even stuff like Miller/Coors Lite is 4.2%. Bud is 5%.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#180

Post by devoply »

c0nducktr wrote: post #140
devoply wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any proof whatsoever of this? It assumes that the natural behavior of cells in the brain is dysfunctional. Herd culling is a normal part of ecology in that weaker animals become prey to predators. Humans add their own complexity to that natural order of the system. In the human body cells which are not performing their correct behavior kill themselves. Otherwise they can become cancers.

It's an old joke from the television show Cheers. "Well you see, Norm, it's like this... A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo and when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest mem…

Yeah I think I've seen that before from the know-it-all mailman who was wrong about most things but very convincing, sure, know-it-all.
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