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Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#151

Post by EpicEng »

mothers wrote: post #21

would you give a 5 year old a beer? no? exactly. everyone knows drinking is bad for you. they do it anyway, because "reasons" [1] anyone who disagrees is just being irrational. [1] which may include partying and hooking up, as well as removing any awkwardness they have.

I bet you're a load of fun.

Yes, we know that alcohol is generally not great, but that doesn't mean there's no value in quantifying what "not great means". What was the point of your comment exactly? You sound like a bitter old man who never got invited to parties.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#152

Post by EpicEng »

mothers wrote: post #109
unit91 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man I really wish I could like what you've said here. I too wish people would choose to stay in their right minds (vs. drunk or high), and think hookups are bad. But I also wouldn't give a 5 year old a circular saw, so that can't be the proper rationale. And you've got to be more winsome or you're doing more harm to your view than good.

a 5 year old (saw the Terrence Tao of dexterity) could theoretically use a circular saw. a saw isn't inherently bad. alcohol as something to be consumed is.

Wow you're really going off the rails here huh?

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#153

Post by briHass »

mothers wrote: post #102
coldtea wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone knows drinking is bad for you Citations (plural) needed. Without meta-studies and peer responses in subsequent papers and studies, this is just using a single article for confirmation bias. In the actual scientific world, studies have been mixed since forever on the subject, with moderate wine drinking for example having shown in many studies favourable results for cardiovascular health and other aspects.…

> In the actual scientific world, studies have been mixed since forever on the subject, with moderate wine drinking for example having shown in many studies favourable results for cardiovascular health and other aspects. Also many places with the most long-lived people on earth have big wine drinking populations (e.g. Icaria). everything here is irrelevant. drinking has no benefits compared to water. period. again, w…

Check this article out for some food for thought: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2017/04/01/what-causes-heart-d...

In short, alcohol may be slightly toxic to brain cells, but it may also significantly reduce heart attack risk. Not much value in having a toxin-free brain if you're dead/stroke from CVD.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#154

Post by theatraine »

capkutay wrote: post #121
startupdiscuss wrote: post #4

But they define "moderate" as 2 drinks/day for a man. That is 14 drinks a week which puts you in the second highest decile for Americans! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...

I would consider moderate drinking to be 4-5 drinks a week (drinking socially weekends). 2 drinks/night is practically getting drunk/tipsy every night. In what world is that moderate?

The consensus among my University classmates was that moderate drinking was drinking until you are moderately drunk (say around 6 drinks). It seems like they were poorly informed.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#155

Post by anigbrowl »

capkutay wrote: post #121
startupdiscuss wrote: post #4

But they define "moderate" as 2 drinks/day for a man. That is 14 drinks a week which puts you in the second highest decile for Americans! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...

I would consider moderate drinking to be 4-5 drinks a week (drinking socially weekends). 2 drinks/night is practically getting drunk/tipsy every night. In what world is that moderate?

I usually drink a bottle of beer with dinner and I don't think this makes me any kind of heavy drinker. I'm probably doing more subtle long-term damage to my body from drinking 4-5 large cups of tea every day.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#156

Post by ramses0 »

oliveshell wrote: post #72
jogjayr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says a 12 oz beer (slightly larger than the standard 330ml beer) is 1 drink for the purposes of the study.

Right, but beer varies widely in alcohol content. One "standard beer" might be defined as 12 oz / ~330ml @ 4.5% alcohol by volume, but many IPAs are 6-7% or greater, and in most U.S. states you can find lots of beer in excess of 10% ABV.

'''In general getting much above 10-15%abv requires specialty yeasts or concentration techniques, and getting much above 20% is going to require some sort of concentration.'''

https://alcohol.stackexchange.com/questions/110/what-is-the-...

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#157

Post by anigbrowl »

jMyles wrote: post #42
B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 550 civil servants Bureaucracy causes brain damage. Those with heavier damage took refuge in alcohol.

I'm not sure if you are trying to be funny - if so, you've succeeded. However, this also reads to me like a very plausible explanation. I like the idea of specifically studying this component further.

I too think there might be something to this (partly because both my parents were civil servants). There is a certain amount of creativity and problem-solving at the management level, but bureaucracy selects for people who adhere pretty strictly to rules and I'm not sure how the study authors could easily account for this.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#158

Post by exclusiv »

capkutay wrote: post #121
startupdiscuss wrote: post #4

But they define "moderate" as 2 drinks/day for a man. That is 14 drinks a week which puts you in the second highest decile for Americans! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think...

I would consider moderate drinking to be 4-5 drinks a week (drinking socially weekends). 2 drinks/night is practically getting drunk/tipsy every night. In what world is that moderate?

> 2 drinks/night is practically getting drunk/tipsy every night

Maybe if you hammer the 2 drinks and you weigh 100 pounds. But 2 drinks with a normal drinking pace will not get most people tipsy or remotely drunk.

I would guess 2 drinks per night is moderate in many countries. When I was in Italy I observed many drinking red wine in the morning at some cafes.

It does seem, however, that in Italy as an example "The older generation drinks four times as much as the younger generation on average." [1].

A lot of people feel a societal pressure to only drink when others are drinking - special occasions or nights out on the town. Or only after certain times like 5 PM. Personally I think that leads to more binge drinking. I'll drink without worrying if anyone else around me is. I'm an adult.

[1] http://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/la-dd-italian-wine-con...

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#159

Post by exclusiv »

Theodores wrote: post #125
codyb wrote: post #41

Alcohol is getting a pretty bad rap to me the more I read about it. After reading this I was curious about ways to _increase_ hippocampal function. According to [0] it seems like exercise can increase hippocampal function. Another link I can't find again since I found it on my phone and am now on my laptop indicated things like learning languages, and an omega 3 rich diet can also help. This is good news for me since…

Here is some more reading to further persuade you - SECRET FSB LECTURE: Why Putin doesn't drink alcohol [0]. This clip has Putin back in 1999, Chechen War, raising a glass with the troops to then put the glass down and command his men to get back to work, deferring the drinking until the job is done. The supposed 'secret FSB lecture' explains how alcohol strips the outer 'oily' layer from blood vessels causing things…

They probably did cigarettes on the company tab back in the day. The difference is, cigarettes don't make a company event more fun and most places have laws or bans on smoking indoors.

Cigarette smoke is also very obnoxious, gets on and lingers on everything (clothes, drapes, etc), can trigger asthma attacks, etc. It stopped being cool a long time ago too.

Almost everyone would vote for alcohol at events and nobody would vote for cigarettes.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#160

Post by dghughes »

jogjayr wrote: post #22
TylerE wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "drink" is not in line with common vernacular though. What most people would call a "drink" is usually about 1.5 or more drinks by the medical standard. A decent sized glass of red wine can easily be 3 drinks.

The article says a 12 oz beer (slightly larger than the standard 330ml beer) is 1 drink for the purposes of the study.

A bit of a weird and somewhat related trivia to the question of what is a drink there is a reverse situation in Canada sometimes.

In Canada (and UK?) legally a pint is 20 fluid ounces but in the USA it's 16 fluid ounces. Some bars in Canada serve 16 oz drinks calling it a pint. My guess is they buy "pint size" glassware from the US but it's 16 oz..

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