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Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#71

Post by 0xffff2 »

mothers wrote: post #21

would you give a 5 year old a beer? no? exactly. everyone knows drinking is bad for you. they do it anyway, because "reasons" [1] anyone who disagrees is just being irrational. [1] which may include partying and hooking up, as well as removing any awkwardness they have.

would you let a 5 year old drive a car? no? exactly. everyone knows driving is bad for you. they do it anyway, because "reasons" [1] anyone who disagrees is just being irrational.

[1] which may include needing to get to work and not having good public transit available

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#72

Post by oliveshell »

jogjayr wrote: post #22
TylerE wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "drink" is not in line with common vernacular though. What most people would call a "drink" is usually about 1.5 or more drinks by the medical standard. A decent sized glass of red wine can easily be 3 drinks.

The article says a 12 oz beer (slightly larger than the standard 330ml beer) is 1 drink for the purposes of the study.

Right, but beer varies widely in alcohol content. One "standard beer" might be defined as 12 oz / ~330ml @ 4.5% alcohol by volume, but many IPAs are 6-7% or greater, and in most U.S. states you can find lots of beer in excess of 10% ABV.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#73

Post by opportune »

grandalf wrote: post #65
mortenjorck wrote: post #3

Study finds correlation. Article mentions caveat that correlation is not causation. Headline explicitly states causation. This is certainly a very interesting correlation, and demands further study. Perhaps there is a causal link. But it's just (predictably) irresponsible journalism to head such a piece with a factually incorrect headline.

> Study finds correlation. Article mentions caveat that correlation is not causation. Headline explicitly states causation. Welcome to the Washington Post. In cases like this it's fairly obvious but across the board there is such a low standard for journalism that I can't bring myself to pay the $1 to subscribe. When Bezos bought it I had hoped we'd see a new era of high quality American journalism, but the opposite…

WaPo is 50% Trump and 50% a moderately better version of buzzfeed.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#74

Post by gabrielgoh »

mortenjorck wrote: post #3

Study finds correlation. Article mentions caveat that correlation is not causation. Headline explicitly states causation. This is certainly a very interesting correlation, and demands further study. Perhaps there is a causal link. But it's just (predictably) irresponsible journalism to head such a piece with a factually incorrect headline.

Sure, counterfactual causation is the gold standard in science, but it is extremely difficult to pin down experimentally (in this case it requires an experiment, or a natural experiment, where people are forced to drink 2 drinks daily over a span of 30 years. This is not only impossible but unethical.). The judgement of causation from correlation is usually an art not a science, with the use of such things as instrumental variables or other such "soft" techniques, which boil down to opinion and expert knowledge.

The article itself states that the authors believe there is an element of causation in the study

"Alcohol might represent a modifiable risk factor for cognitive impairment, and primary prevention interventions targeted to later life could be too late."

The "may" is, of course a kind of scientific hedging, but I do not think the journalists made an unfair reading of the paper. Bear in mind many of these articles are made in consultation with the authors themselves. If you have any problems with the conclusions of the article, you should take it to the authors of the paper itself, not the journalists

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#75

Post by jonathansizz »

baq wrote: post #19
ams6110 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Popular news is all clickbait now. I've just opted out.

desperately seeking non-popular news with non-clickbait articles. got any referrals?

The Financial Times largely avoids editorializing its news sections, and employs real journalists (maybe because executives need accurate information and are willing and able to pay for it).

Notice how even big stories often appear significantly later on the FT website compared to other outlets, but when they do appear they've generally got the facts straight.

Their subscription fees are substantial, but if we don't want everything reduced to ad-based sensationalism we're going to need to pay actual money.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#76

Post by opportune »

fumar wrote: post #28
jogjayr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says a 12 oz beer (slightly larger than the standard 330ml beer) is 1 drink for the purposes of the study.

What about alcohol content

It's actually 0.6 ounces of alcohol irrespective of alcohol content. Therefore 12 oz 5% beer = 1.5 oz 40% liquor = 5 oz 12% wine = 1 unit

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#77

Post by devoply »

buckbova wrote: post #36
devoply wrote: post #17

Well why wouldn't it. Alcohol is not a health food. It crosses the blood brain barrier and is toxic to cells. So yeah put toxic stuff up there, there will be some consequence.

Haven't you heard of culling the herd? Meaning, in this case, deliberately killing off weaker brain cells to make the brain as a whole work faster.

Is there any proof whatsoever of this? It assumes that the natural behavior of cells in the brain is dysfunctional. Herd culling is a normal part of ecology in that weaker animals become prey to predators. Humans add their own complexity to that natural order of the system.

In the human body cells which are not performing their correct behavior kill themselves. Otherwise they can become cancers.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#79

Post by DanBC »

sp332 wrote: post #27
baq wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

desperately seeking non-popular news with non-clickbait articles. got any referrals?

A print newspaper? Edit: I'm not being sarcastic. Even if you read the online version of a print paper, you're getting articles that weren't optimized for clicks.

The Daily Mail is an example of a newspaper that has a very different online offering to the print version.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#80

Post by epistasis »

gabrielgoh wrote: post #74
mortenjorck wrote: post #3

Study finds correlation. Article mentions caveat that correlation is not causation. Headline explicitly states causation. This is certainly a very interesting correlation, and demands further study. Perhaps there is a causal link. But it's just (predictably) irresponsible journalism to head such a piece with a factually incorrect headline.

Sure, counterfactual causation is the gold standard in science, but it is extremely difficult to pin down experimentally (in this case it requires an experiment, or a natural experiment, where people are forced to drink 2 drinks daily over a span of 30 years. This is not only impossible but unethical.). The judgement of causation from correlation is usually an art not a science, with the use of such things as instrum…

I think the request here isn't to change this paper, or the article, but for the headline to be "Even moderate drinking correlated with atrophy in brain areas..."

This is on the editor's heads.

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