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Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#41

Post by codyb »

Alcohol is getting a pretty bad rap to me the more I read about it. After reading this I was curious about ways to _increase_ hippocampal function. According to [0] it seems like exercise can increase hippocampal function. Another link I can't find again since I found it on my phone and am now on my laptop indicated things like learning languages, and an omega 3 rich diet can also help.

This is good news for me since NYC is very much a drinkers town and I enjoy partaking, but am also learning Italian, exercising more, and frequently eat with omega 3s in mind.

Here's to hoping they cancel out!

[0] - https://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v472/n7344/full/nature...

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#42

Post by jMyles »

B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #39
gnat wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

550 civil servants followed over 30 years. > After adjustment for numerous potential confounders, alcohol use was associated with reduced right hippocampal volume in a dose dependent manner; even moderate drinkers (classified as up to 21 units a week for men at the time of the study) were three times more likely to have hippocampal atrophy than abstainers, and very light drinking (1-6 units a week) conferred no prote…

> 550 civil servants Bureaucracy causes brain damage. Those with heavier damage took refuge in alcohol.

I'm not sure if you are trying to be funny - if so, you've succeeded. However, this also reads to me like a very plausible explanation. I like the idea of specifically studying this component further.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#43

Post by abawany »

mortenjorck wrote: post #3

Study finds correlation. Article mentions caveat that correlation is not causation. Headline explicitly states causation. This is certainly a very interesting correlation, and demands further study. Perhaps there is a causal link. But it's just (predictably) irresponsible journalism to head such a piece with a factually incorrect headline.

I also find that the recent cuts in editorial staff at various newspapers is having a noticeable effect on quality. I subscribe to the NYT and noticed that after their recent editorial layoff, some of the articles had some egregious spelling and syntax errors.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#44

Post by coldtea »

mothers wrote: post #21

would you give a 5 year old a beer? no? exactly. everyone knows drinking is bad for you. they do it anyway, because "reasons" [1] anyone who disagrees is just being irrational. [1] which may include partying and hooking up, as well as removing any awkwardness they have.

>everyone knows drinking is bad for you

Citations (plural) needed. Without meta-studies and peer responses in subsequent papers and studies, this is just using a single article for confirmation bias.

In the actual scientific world, studies have been mixed since forever on the subject, with moderate wine drinking for example having shown in many studies favourable results for cardiovascular health and other aspects. Also many places with the most long-lived people on earth have big wine drinking populations (e.g. Icaria).

>they do it anyway, because "reasons"

They do it anyway because life is not just about avoiding everything "bad for you" or dangerous, but also about doing whatever one likes and having fun, life expectancy be damned -- from mountain climbing to drinking and anything else.

>anyone who disagrees is just being irrational.

Anyone who disagrees even for casual drinking is probably too afraid of dying -- but they are gonna die the same as everybody else anyway, and often having lived shorter lives than many of their drinking friends.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#45

Post by novia »

jogjayr wrote: post #22
TylerE wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "drink" is not in line with common vernacular though. What most people would call a "drink" is usually about 1.5 or more drinks by the medical standard. A decent sized glass of red wine can easily be 3 drinks.

The article says a 12 oz beer (slightly larger than the standard 330ml beer) is 1 drink for the purposes of the study.

According to the study which was linked in another comment [1] they were using the standard defined in [2]. This site shows that one pint of lager counts as 2 units of alcohol. One pint is 19.2 oz [3]. A bottle of beer is usually 12 oz, aka 5/8 of a pint, aka 1.25 units of alcohol. I trust the source over the science journalist.

[1] http://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2353

[2] https://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/unit-calculator

[3] Google failed me here. British pints are 19.2 oz, not 12 oz, as pointed out in the comments below.

On a slightly unrelated note.. A woman would be defined as a moderate drinker if she drinks more than one unit a day, but most beer companies don't sell ~10 oz cans of beer. When I feel like drinking at a restaurant, I make a joke and ask for a "child size" beer. When I drink at home, I usually have to pour out part of the full bottle of beer because it is just too much. It seems like a waste!

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#46

Post by prodmerc »

haswell wrote: post #32
jogjayr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says a 12 oz beer (slightly larger than the standard 330ml beer) is 1 drink for the purposes of the study.

I couldn't get beyond the paywall, but did they mention which sort of beer? Standard Bud/Miller products? Using a 12 oz beer as a starting point doesn't mean much in a craft beer world with most "good" beers ranging from 5-8% ABV. Edit: not really understanding the downvotes? Alcohol content is extremely important in understanding the meaning of a "drink". Not trying to be pedantic, but now more than ever, "a beer" i…

Every time I ask what defines a "drink" in absolute terms of alcohol content I get downvoted too.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#47

Post by loeg »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #16
scottLobster wrote: post #12

So just for reference, 14 units of alcohol (the low-end correlated to atrophy) is approximately: 7-9 (US) shots of hard alcohol (assumed 37.5% ABV) 7 pints of Lager (assumed 4% ABV) 9.3 125 ml glasses of average strength wine (assumed 12% ABV) Looks like my 2-5 bottles of beer a week habit is fine. :) http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/...

A single shot of hard liquor is explicitly 1 unit. 1 standard serving is 25ml, *40% (standard for whiskey and vodka ) = 10ml = 1 unit. So 14 units is 14 shots. This is not a coincidence. It's why they call it a "unit", and why the standard "single shot size" is 25ml. (The other measurements are fine) Edit: caveat: I'm European. This may be different in the us!

This is also true (or very similar) in the US. 14 units is certainly closer to 14 shots than 7.

https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-co...

> In the United States, one "standard" drink contains roughly 14 grams of pure alcohol, which is found in:

> * 12 ounces of regular beer, which is usually about 5% alcohol

> * 5 ounces of wine, which is typically about 12% alcohol

> * 1.5 ounces of distilled spirits (= 1 US shot), which is about 40% alcohol

Edit: although, 25mL is far less than 1.5oz. Different units, then.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#48

Post by unit91 »

mothers wrote: post #21

would you give a 5 year old a beer? no? exactly. everyone knows drinking is bad for you. they do it anyway, because "reasons" [1] anyone who disagrees is just being irrational. [1] which may include partying and hooking up, as well as removing any awkwardness they have.

Man I really wish I could like what you've said here. I too wish people would choose to stay in their right minds (vs. drunk or high), and think hookups are bad.

But I also wouldn't give a 5 year old a circular saw, so that can't be the proper rationale. And you've got to be more winsome or you're doing more harm to your view than good.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#49

Post by leggomylibro »

mortenjorck wrote: post #3

Study finds correlation. Article mentions caveat that correlation is not causation. Headline explicitly states causation. This is certainly a very interesting correlation, and demands further study. Perhaps there is a causal link. But it's just (predictably) irresponsible journalism to head such a piece with a factually incorrect headline.

Study also looks at adults of average age 43 over 30 years; its subjects are heavily weighted in terms of age.

Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning

#50

Post by jamroom »

protonfish wrote: post #33
devoply wrote: post #17

Well why wouldn't it. Alcohol is not a health food. It crosses the blood brain barrier and is toxic to cells. So yeah put toxic stuff up there, there will be some consequence.

The mistake you are making is about dosage. All substances are toxic or harmless depending on the amount.

You're right of course, but the "correct" amount of alcohol is still going to be much more toxic than most other foods that enter your body. Alcohol is a poison.
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