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California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

reuters.com

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Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#41

Post by stinos »

luckydude wrote: post #34

Last time roundup came up here I made the claim that it killed my dad (healthy guy, came from a healthy long lived family, he died about 15-20 years sooner than his relatives from the cancer that is associated with roundup, you can google "non-hodgkin's lymphoma roundup" and you'll see a zillion lawyers wanting to talk to you about it). Yet hackernews people shouted me down saying that it wasn't possible. I'm not an…

From what I understand: we just don't know for sure. There is just no conclusive evidence saying 'humans exposed to this amount will have a higher risk at developing cancer'. That doesn't mean it's impossible, nor does it mean we will never know. That is probably what HN was trying to tell you (well, I hope it was, no other conclusions seem justified at this point - again, as far as I know from when I last read up on it a couple of months ago).

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#43

Post by alan-crowe »

mostlyskeptical wrote: post #29
c0nducktr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the State of California, alcoholic beverages are also carcinogens requiring warnings. Well, alcohol is a carcinogen. Why not label it as such?

That was just one example of how everything is labeled a carcinogen there.

Alcohol is a poor choice if you are trying to illustrate over labeling, because alcohol, especially heavy consumption of spirits, has some notoriety as a cause of oral cancer.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Cancer-of-the-mouth/Pages/Cause...

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#44

Post by Bluestrike2 »

c0nducktr wrote: post #21
tptacek wrote: post #6

Here's the current California Prop 65 list. It's... extensive. https://oehha.ca.gov/media/downloads/proposition-65//p65sing... I don't think this means as much as the headline makes it sound like. In the State of California, alcoholic beverages are also carcinogens requiring warnings. California cognitive dissonance: the science suggesting carcinogenicity of acrylamide, which is present --- in significant amounts ---…

> In the State of California, alcoholic beverages are also carcinogens requiring warnings. Well, alcohol is a carcinogen. Why not label it as such?

Because labeling everything desensitizes people to the label and distorts risk analysis. Desensitization allows people to overestimate the dangers of some substances, while potentially severely underestimating the dangers of others.

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#45

Post by rudedogg »

luckydude wrote: post #28
rudedogg wrote: post #26

I switched from using RoundUp to a vinegar/salt/dish soap solution this summer and can't believe how well it works. It seems to be just as effective as RoundUp.

What are you putting it on? Does it kill everything or just the subset that you want? What's the mixture ratios? If it worked on scotch broom I'd be forever grateful. Thanks!

It definitely kills grass. I use it for both grass and weeds outside of the lawn. The recipe is from Pinterest of course but it's:

    1 gallon white vinegar (the kind we bought is 5% acidity)
    1 cup table salt
    1 tbsp Dawn dish soap

    Mix and pour into a spray bottle.
I'm not sure about scotch broom - reading says it's more effective on small weeds, but that it kills whatever it contacts. I think the salt is damaging to the soil, so don't spray it if you plan to grow something else.

Here's a paper I found with some info: https://extension.umd.edu//sites/extension.umd.edu/files/_do...

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#46

Post by stinos »

bazzert wrote: post #36
sabujp wrote: post #27

I've already switched to vinegar, salt, and a pump sprayer from lowes, it's cheaper and i can buy gallons and pounds of it from costco

but probably more toxic than glyphosphate. https://geneticliteracyproject.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/0...

And more detrimental to soil life (though maybe that's exactly the point here)

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#47

Post by cname »

luckydude wrote: post #28
rudedogg wrote: post #26

I switched from using RoundUp to a vinegar/salt/dish soap solution this summer and can't believe how well it works. It seems to be just as effective as RoundUp.

What are you putting it on? Does it kill everything or just the subset that you want? What's the mixture ratios? If it worked on scotch broom I'd be forever grateful. Thanks!

http://weedcontrolfreaks.com/2014/06/salt-vinegar-and-glypho...

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#48

Post by jjawssd »

X86BSD wrote: post #7

Yeah I have the most benign products, that carry the Commiefornia warning. I am sure water and oxygen are on their list to label. It's really out of hand.

Oxygen is extremely toxic to humans and the number one cause of aging. We need a warning on this.

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#49

Post by luckydude »

stinos wrote: post #41
luckydude wrote: post #34

Last time roundup came up here I made the claim that it killed my dad (healthy guy, came from a healthy long lived family, he died about 15-20 years sooner than his relatives from the cancer that is associated with roundup, you can google "non-hodgkin's lymphoma roundup" and you'll see a zillion lawyers wanting to talk to you about it). Yet hackernews people shouted me down saying that it wasn't possible. I'm not an…

From what I understand: we just don't know for sure. There is just no conclusive evidence saying 'humans exposed to this amount will have a higher risk at developing cancer'. That doesn't mean it's impossible, nor does it mean we will never know. That is probably what HN was trying to tell you (well, I hope it was, no other conclusions seem justified at this point - again, as far as I know from when I last read up on…

My understanding is that the EU is, or has already, going to label roundup as cancer causing. And California is now doing that.

So what are they basing that ban on? If there is no evidence why would they do that? Has the EU or California made a practice of labeling stuff as cancer causing without any evidence? That seems pretty weird if that's true.

Thanks for the tone of your answer, BTW.

Re: California to list glyphosate as cancer-causing

#50

Post by kbenson »

stinos wrote: post #41
luckydude wrote: post #34

Last time roundup came up here I made the claim that it killed my dad (healthy guy, came from a healthy long lived family, he died about 15-20 years sooner than his relatives from the cancer that is associated with roundup, you can google "non-hodgkin's lymphoma roundup" and you'll see a zillion lawyers wanting to talk to you about it). Yet hackernews people shouted me down saying that it wasn't possible. I'm not an…

From what I understand: we just don't know for sure. There is just no conclusive evidence saying 'humans exposed to this amount will have a higher risk at developing cancer'. That doesn't mean it's impossible, nor does it mean we will never know. That is probably what HN was trying to tell you (well, I hope it was, no other conclusions seem justified at this point - again, as far as I know from when I last read up on…

> That is probably what HN was trying to tell you (well, I hope it was

IIRC, the push back was against taking what his dad assumed was the cause as gospel without actual evidence. It's tricky, you want to respect the person that was ill knew something about what was going on, and respect their memory after they are gone, but there's really no reason we should provide them more factual relevance than previously. Human beings are often not rational creatures, and I see no reason to believe that the stress of illness and possible impending death would make them more rational in general (even if it may make certain individuals more or less rational).

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