How to Interview Engineers • Hacker News Board

Re: How to Interview Engineers

#331

Post by padobson » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 2:31 PM UTC

YorickPeterse wrote: post #80

padobson wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did you last switch jobs? I recently went through a round of employment where I quit my job at the beginning. Between updating my resume/social networks, brushing up on academic CS, finding leads, scheduling interviews and follow-up interviews and managing/negotiating offers, it was absolutely a full-time job. I can't imagine finding a new programming job while still working at the old job.

> I can't imagine finding a new programming job while still working at the old job. Imagine having things such as: a family, a car, a mortgage, bills, etc. Giving up a job (therefore your income) just to find another job is not an option for many.

I have all those things, two cars in fact!

At the time I was living in north east Ohio, where cost of living is fairly low. It would certainly be harder in high cost of living areas.

Re: How to Interview Engineers

#332

Post by Jach » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 2:32 PM UTC

dieterrams wrote: post #75

kudokatz wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When did you last switch jobs? I recently went through a round of employment where I quit my job at the beginning. The tone of this implies that lining up a new job without first quitting is outdated and negative. From the other side, quitting before having a new position can look irresponsible. I have never quit a job without another lined up and have done quite nicely, myself. Why ever invest in trashy projects w…

I spent a year not working and had no trouble lining up dozens of interviews when I started looking. However, it did take several months before (a) my interview game was up to par, and (b) I found a company I actually wanted to work for.

What did you do for the year off? I've always believed that tech is one of the most generous industries for this sort of "resume gap" of a year+ but if the question comes up I don't think most people would think highly of answers like "sleep" or "video games", even though more socially acceptable answers like "travel" aren't all that different... I wonder how much it varies from tech company to company. Last time I did interviewing I had an older guy ask about my GPA, and a few wondered what I was up to in 2013 when I had a year off my resume (finishing off school but that doesn't answer what the summer was spent doing, which wasn't much of note).

Re: How to Interview Engineers

#333

Post by padobson » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 2:35 PM UTC

cakedoggie wrote: post #190

padobson wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did you last switch jobs? I recently went through a round of employment where I quit my job at the beginning. Between updating my resume/social networks, brushing up on academic CS, finding leads, scheduling interviews and follow-up interviews and managing/negotiating offers, it was absolutely a full-time job. I can't imagine finding a new programming job while still working at the old job.

> Between updating my resume/social networks, brushing up on academic CS, finding leads, scheduling interviews and follow-up interviews and managing/negotiating offers, it was absolutely a full-time job. That is ridiculous, you must have incredibly bad time management skills. Or do you actually think this is very common?

When I first got out of college in '08, it didn't take this kind of effort to get hired. At my previous job, it was also fairly easy - but hiring has changed quite a bit in the last 3-5 years.

I had a company demand I do two phone interviews, plus an onsite, 2 time zones away, for a $50/hr, temporary contract with no health insurance. Obviously, I politely declined to continue, but companies wouldn't be doing that if it wasn't working on some candidates.

Re: How to Interview Engineers

#334

Post by gilbetron » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 2:36 PM UTC

lurker83256 wrote: post #236

gilbetron wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A weeder question I've used: How many operations can a modern CPU perform per second: A) Thousands, B) Millions, C) Billions We'll accept C, and B with explanation. I'd say roughly 75% of the people I've asked (who have gotten through a phone interview) cannot answer it with any ability. People whine about the difficulty of interviews, but honestly, almost everyone we've ever hired have said the interview was pretty…

This question is trickier than it sounds. Sure 10 9 clock cycles per second, but estimating for actual human-perceived ops for an algorithmic problem one should use 10 6. (Source: USA Computing Olympiad problems.)

We totally would interview someone that responded as you did. Thing is, I'd say roughly 50% of the people that applied for the position would respond with something like "I dunno" or "A" and be unable to have any sort of rational discussion about it.

Re: How to Interview Engineers

#335

Post by gilbetron » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 2:39 PM UTC

rasen58 wrote: post #181

gilbetron wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A weeder question I've used: How many operations can a modern CPU perform per second: A) Thousands, B) Millions, C) Billions We'll accept C, and B with explanation. I'd say roughly 75% of the people I've asked (who have gotten through a phone interview) cannot answer it with any ability. People whine about the difficulty of interviews, but honestly, almost everyone we've ever hired have said the interview was pretty…

I feel like that's a bad question to ask. An algorithm question at least lets you attempt it and you can see if they know things. But this question isn't something that people normally talk about or think about. I think older engineers would think this is a normal question to ask since they/you have seen the evolution of computers over time, and have actually seen the number of operations changing to get into the bil…

So you would be completely comfortable interviewing someone that claimed to have done 10 years of systems programming, including optimization, and yet when asked that question, just shrugged their shoulders and said, "I dunno"? Even if you asked them how fast a modern processor was and they still said, "I dunno"?

Re: How to Interview Engineers

#336

Post by gilbetron » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 2:43 PM UTC

symlinkk wrote: post #180

gilbetron wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A weeder question I've used: How many operations can a modern CPU perform per second: A) Thousands, B) Millions, C) Billions We'll accept C, and B with explanation. I'd say roughly 75% of the people I've asked (who have gotten through a phone interview) cannot answer it with any ability. People whine about the difficulty of interviews, but honestly, almost everyone we've ever hired have said the interview was pretty…

When the hell would you ever need to know that? Do you ask carpenters how many times their screwdrivers spin per minute? It just seems like useless trivia.

Carpentry is far different than programming. But even so, and equivalent question I would ask a carpenter I wanted to hire would be, "How much hardwood flooring would I need to cover the rooms in my house?" If they answer, "I dunno" and then stare at me blankly, I'm certainly not going to hire them.

Apparently some people take whatever warm body shows up.

Re: How to Interview Engineers

#337

Post by austincheney » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 2:43 PM UTC

cl0wnshoes wrote: post #319

I've performed interviews and phone screens for years and out of all the techniques I've tried all of them typically end up with me thinking I'm doing it wrong. Basic domain questions, problem solving, white boarding, white boarding along side the person helping them out, coding in an IDE, take home projects. As of today, in Kansas City, I'm looking at around 4% pass rate, and close to 90% utter face palming failures…

My numbers were about the same when I was interviewing for JavaScript developers years ago at Travelocity. The only 1 skill I absolutely could not bend on was the ability to walk the DOM. Only 4 out of the 22 people I interviewed could do this and only two of them could do it well.

Strangely enough I warned candidates days before the interview of what I was looking for and still almost nobody bothered to brush up on the couple of basic methods needed to do this 1 task.

Re: How to Interview Engineers

#338

Post by detaro » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 2:44 PM UTC

pogaxvr wrote: post #330

detaro wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And low Mhz range is in the millions, which they said they would accept as an answer with that explanation.

Clock rate != operations. It's like you didn't bother to read what I wrote.

Closely enough related to number of basic operations though I'd say. I'll agree with you if it really just is a multiple choice question without context, but the initial poster did not present it that way, but said that explanation/discussion matters. And then your objections are a good starting point for that.

Re: How to Interview Engineers

#339

Post by gilbetron » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 2:47 PM UTC

pogaxvr wrote: post #289

0xbear wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not what's being asked by OP. Their question is rather simple, and software engineer should be able to answer it on autopilot, without even engaging her brain. As a hiring manager I would end the interview right there and then after the failure to answer something like this.

As an interviewee, I would roll my eyes at the ignorance of the interviewer. This is the sort of question that reveals the ignorance of the person asking it. The correct answer is "yes". What is 'modern'? There are very modern embedded CPUs that operate in the low MHz range. How much power is being provided? A 'modern' CPU can be underclocked to ridiculous levels for power savings. What's an operation? Are we talking…

And you are one of the types of person the question is meant to weed out - people so threatened by a simple question they get defensive and hostile.

And thanks for calling me dumb!

Re: How to Interview Engineers

#340

Post by kudokatz » Tue, Jun 27, 2017, 2:47 PM UTC

FilterSweep wrote: post #280

lopatin wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being a professional programmer is not an entirely stress-free job. Often, time matters and you have to think on your feet. That's why I think rejecting a programmer for losing their core competencies like problem solving, i.e. freezing, under a medium amount of pressure is valid.

This is far too much of a simplification of (grand)Parent. you don't know the circumstances that 30 year old programmer with a 2 year old child at home is facing. You could also be like certain firms and immediately nix him on the "merits" of ageism. A female programmer might have travelled 2000 miles to just receive an abstraction question out of left-field over an irrelevant concept to the job. She flew out on this…

> 30 year old programmer with a 2 year old child at home ... nix him on the "merits" of ageism

A choice, conscious or not, to dedicate time to raising a child at the opportunity cost of myriad other ways to spend time is not related to ageism at all.