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Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

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Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#121

Post by theboywho »

K2L8M11N2 wrote: post #116
theboywho wrote: post #100

People suggesting to move conferences to other countries like France or Germany are wrong: you can't guarantee that your country is not going to turn into a US-like isolationist in the future. The US wasn't and your country is also only 1-government away from being one. What we probably need is a new form of portable conferences where the location doesn't matter and/or is flexible and/or regime-proof. We should stop…

>you can't guarantee that your country is not going to turn into a US-like isolationist in the future If it does, you can move the conference again. Just because it can change sometime "in the future" doesn't mean we shouldn't do it now.

I was referring to suggestions of EU as a final solution to the US issue. What you are referring to is to decide on hosting locations on a year to year basis, which joins my idea of portable conferences.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#122

Post by nthcolumn »

tome wrote: post #9
TekMol wrote: post #4

My feeling is that I read stories like these pretty often. That somebody was denied entry or arrested or humiliated while entering the USA. Is this because it happens more often in the USA then in other countries? Or is there some kind of reporting bias at play?

I guess a lot of people try to enter the US, some small proportion get rejected, and you hear about some small proportion of that. Overall you end up hearing several stories.

I hate to break it to you but take it from someone who has traveled all over the world to all sorts of weird regimes and through some crazy hairy checkpoints: the US has developed a major attitude problem in the past 20 years.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#123

Post by coldtea »

y0ghur7_xxx wrote: post #40

This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... These conferences where people around the world meet should start to be hosted somewhere else. Not in the USA anymore. Somewhere in a country that welcomes people instead of treating all of them l…

>This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ...

On the other hand if you have[1] the "good life", you might want to legitimately reduce access to it to those outside[2], especially if you view the outside world as some kind of second rate wasteland (or rich but weirdo culturally, e.g. EU/Japan) that just comes to grab a piece of the pie [3].

With its large internal market, the US was never much for foreign tourism, its average population never cared much for world affairs (except from intervening where their interests are and hating the "target du jour"), and it was never that open to cultural imports (foreign movies, foreign music, foreign books, etc) with the exception of British music, anime, temporary fads (like Caribbean music), and whatever immigrants brought themselves (e.g. national cuisines that got bastadized).

[1] or you think you have -- since in reality they are lagging in several aspects, from education to infant mortality, and the middle class is pressed too much, and let's not get started with guns, police violence, etc.

[2] Whether current Americans are themselves immigrants or children of immigrants doesn't matter much. It's not illogical or hypocritical to want to stop others from getting to where you've gone -- it's just selfish/self-serving.

[3] It's also not illogical to not believe that much in the "pie analogy is wrong because the economy-pie can grow" argument, because they (the US middle/working class) don't see it much happening in actual practice.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#124

Post by humanrebar »

croon wrote: post #84
humanrebar wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... Almost all Americans think this sort of thing is nonsense. But the average American has little standing to hold the American bureaucracy accountable for its nonsense. Americans, especially outsi…

> Americans, especially outside overcrowded urban areas , are courteous, helpful, hospitable people that are very tolerant of other people and ideas . Do you care to elaborate on this? That's incongruent with voting records.

I don't mind elaborating. I need to know which parts of the American voting record concerns you to be specific though.

I will say that America is very diverse. Various states and postal codes have wildly different attitudes about things and very few Americans want to change or homogenize that.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#125

Post by ubernostrum »

germanier wrote: post #112
ubernostrum wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ESTA does not tell you you're "approved" -- it simply tells you whether or not you are in one of the eligible populations for visa-free entry to the US. Nothing in ESTA guarantees you'll be allowed into the US, or even to board your plane.

It literally tells you > Your travel authorization has been approved and you are authorized to travel to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program. It then goes on to say (but this is the same for visas as well): > This does not guarantee admission to the United States; a Customs and Border protection (CBP) officer at a port of entry will have the final determination.

I'm not disagreeing that the web page says that. But what it says is terrible inaccurate wording. ESTA simply determines whether you're someone who is, in general, eligible for visa-free travel (which is primarily determined by your country of citizenship -- everything else involved in ESTA is secondary to that). It doesn't grant a visa or guarantee anything about being allowed in.

Australia uses an almost-identical system (IIRC the US one is based on Australia's).

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#126

Post by germanier »

ubernostrum wrote: post #111
ckastner wrote: post #57

What puzzles me is that the ESTA application was approved in the first place. If they were going to deny him entry, why approve it? Could there be a more benign explanation for this issue? For example: his ESTA approval expired (it's valid for two years), or the data entered on the ESTA form did not exactly match his passport data (special characters, middle names, etc.)

The online ESTA form does not "approve" someone to enter the US. The online ESTA form is required to determine if you're in a population that's generally eligible for visa-free entry (so that the airline and other systems know whether to require a visa for you). Filling out the ESTA form does not grant a visa, does not grant the right to enter the US, and does not even guarantee you'll be allowed onto the plane. It s…

This is simply not true (I posted the exact message it shows you at the end of the process somewhere else in this thread – it explicitly contains the phrase "approved and authorized to travel").

Yes, it does not guarantee you entry. However, it does much more than just to check whether you have a required nationality. If that were all, the system weren't needed. Practically every country has visa-free entry for some nationalities and such travel authorisation systems are very rare among them. Airline know how to check if you have one of the visa-free nationalities and do so every day everywhere in the world (probably much more reliable than having the travel fill out a form, too – they even check again in the case of the US, as we see in this example). The US introduced the ESTA system much later than visa-free travel for certain nationalities.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#127

Post by pjc50 »

b6 wrote: post #113
nickserv wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Almost all Americans think this sort of thing is nonsense. But the average American has little standing to hold the American bureaucracy accountable for its nonsense. Sorry but they don't get off that easy when almost half of them voted Trump into office. > Americans, especially outside overcrowded urban areas, are courteous, helpful, hospitable people that are very tolerant of other people and ideas. I've found qu…

> Sorry but they don't get off that easy when almost half of them voted Trump into office. Not to rehash the past, but I thought we had gotten it clear by now: voting for the guy does not indicate support. Americans vote for the candidate they fear and despise the least.

Voting is literally one of the two types of support that actually counts, far more than for-or-against posts on the internet. The other one would be giving money.

If you voted for Trump, you supported Trump. It's OK to change your mind, but people need to own and take responsibility for what they do at the ballot box.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#128

Post by skynode »

qume wrote: post #120
skynode wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regarding Daniel - like others here I'm sure it's because cURL has been used extensively for bad purposes he was kicked off the ESTA program. Yes it sucks that they didn't let him know in advance, and they didn't have the smarts to figure that he had nothing to do with the bad actors. Very strange paragraph right there. I could easily generalize this to Windows powershell is increasingly being used in cyber offensi…

Yes you can generalize this to Windows powershell. And no that does not have anything to do with ejecting Microsoft from the US. Microsoft isn't a private foreign individual using a privileged entry mechanism in the US that given any reason whatsoever can be revoked in favour of a perfectly functional visa process that most countries have to use. ESTA is only available to a few countries, and not all people in those…

Great. So what does this rejection accomplish based on your premise of having written software that has been repurposed by evil actors? Dan's GPS coordinates at any time t does not affect whether he writes code that will be used for good or evil, so what gives? :\

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#129

Post by ubernostrum »

germanier wrote: post #126
ubernostrum wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The online ESTA form does not "approve" someone to enter the US. The online ESTA form is required to determine if you're in a population that's generally eligible for visa-free entry (so that the airline and other systems know whether to require a visa for you). Filling out the ESTA form does not grant a visa, does not grant the right to enter the US, and does not even guarantee you'll be allowed onto the plane. It s…

This is simply not true (I posted the exact message it shows you at the end of the process somewhere else in this thread – it explicitly contains the phrase "approved and authorized to travel"). Yes, it does not guarantee you entry. However, it does much more than just to check whether you have a required nationality. If that were all, the system weren't needed. Practically every country has visa-free entry for some…

And as I said in my other reply to you: the wording you are citing is terrible and inaccurate and you should never, ever, ever, EVER, rely on it as an exhaustive legally-binding declaration.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#130

Post by nothrabannosir »

ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #92
nothrabannosir wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no explanation for interview rejections too. It's a lack of respect for anyone but oneself. Nothing personal Ajeet, but: for the love of God, can this trope please die? It has been widely, extensively, repeatedly, incessantly established every single time this comes up: they do it because of the unreasonably high risk of being sued. If the cards are stacked against you, the wisest move is not to play. This has noth…

Not personal at all, I don't for the most part need to participate in the 'game' anymore thankfully, but I still think in specific situations, perhaps a junior dev failing a technical white board interview, if they ask for feedback it should be given, otherwise they have no way of knowing what went wrong or how to improve. It takes five minutes. Being afraid of being sued is a lame excuse. I know 15 years ago it woul…

Yes for Daniel, no for companies. Either we protect them (at least slightly) more from lawsuits, OR we accept their silence. I honestly don't mind which. But it's one or the other. We make the rules, as people.
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