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Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

bjoern.brembs.net

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Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#131

Post by nsaslideface »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #20
nsaslideface wrote: post #16

It is rare that true heroism can be framed as a catchy story. Those working for campaign finance reform is another example. People who fight "David-like" against these Goliaths are doing extremely radical work, and they will be canonized in the coming centuries. They don't get the semi-celebrity of Snowden or Ellsberg in the present day because they lack the whistleblower story of one person verses the full power of…

"True heroism" is raising your kid well because it's the right thing to do even though nobody except your kid and maybe grandkid will ever know what you did. These people have gotten their acknowledgments (as they should), let's not act like they are nobodies in the shadow of history. You're reading about them on HN precisely because media knows who they are. How many people have documentaries made about them after t…

I understand where you're coming from, but I was more focusing on the difference between a household name (e.g. MLK, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandela) verses being the subject of a footnote or a chapter in books that are only read by graduate students. I meant heroism in terms of securing advances for the whole human race or an entire country, rather than being a hero to another individual or family...two meanings of the word "hero" that can't be compared.

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#132

Post by KGIII »

tomjen3 wrote: post #130
KGIII wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent. Again, I don't ever want to discourage learning. I just know many will not. That and, well, some of it can be pretty rough to digest. But, absolutely keep reading, learning, growing, and sharing. I'm just not going to publish with the general public being the intended audience. On the other hand, I'm more than happy to try to explain stuff, for those who are curious. I'd never discourage a citizen scientis…

Oh I didn't think you wanted to discourage anybody - I just wanted to point out that of the different sciencies theoretical math is probably the most difficult for an outsider to get and psychology is surprisingly easy.

Ah... That makes sense. I had another person reply as if I were suggesting I weren't for open access - even though I specifically mentioned it. Thus, I was improperly primed, methinks.

But, absolutely... The idea of the citizen scientist is so important to me. I have some complains about the scientific community but this may not be the place for that.

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#133

Post by mirimir »

watwut wrote: post #101
mirimir wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any support for Russia and Putin are orthogonal to her work with Sci-Hub. But given that you brought it up, I gotta say that broad support for Putin is entirely understandable. Russia has been through hell. Millions killed during WWII. Bankrupted by the Cold War. Humiliated after the collapse of the Soviet Union. To many Russians, he is a hero.

> To many Russians, he is a hero. Those are Russians who essentially crave authoritarian dictatorship and don't mind few victims here and there. Your analysis or Russian hell somehow managed to ignore hell caused by Russian own dictators.

No, those are Russians who are afraid.

And yes, I ignored Stalin. He did horrible things. But then, Russians were afraid then, too.

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#134

Post by aaron-lebo »

nsaslideface wrote: post #131
aaron-lebo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"True heroism" is raising your kid well because it's the right thing to do even though nobody except your kid and maybe grandkid will ever know what you did. These people have gotten their acknowledgments (as they should), let's not act like they are nobodies in the shadow of history. You're reading about them on HN precisely because media knows who they are. How many people have documentaries made about them after t…

I understand where you're coming from, but I was more focusing on the difference between a household name (e.g. MLK, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandela) verses being the subject of a footnote or a chapter in books that are only read by graduate students. I meant heroism in terms of securing advances for the whole human race or an entire country, rather than being a hero to another individual or family...two meanings of the w…

You're right.

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#135

Post by watwut »

mirimir wrote: post #133
watwut wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To many Russians, he is a hero. Those are Russians who essentially crave authoritarian dictatorship and don't mind few victims here and there. Your analysis or Russian hell somehow managed to ignore hell caused by Russian own dictators.

No, those are Russians who are afraid. And yes, I ignored Stalin. He did horrible things. But then, Russians were afraid then, too.

Right now many people in Russia celebrate Stalin. Literally. And there is correlation between those and Putin fans.

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#136

Post by noiv »

klibertp wrote: post #97
noiv wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the article? ...the part about human rights? What are some street slang bits against a billion dollars money making depravity that keeps the world from spreading the know-how needed to solve problems right now at the front door? I'll never understand why disrespectful words are more comment-worthy than disrespectful actions at a global scale. At least the former can be ignored. If you really feel that u…

Are you familiar with "broken windows theory"? According to Wiki, it states that: > The theory states that maintaining and monitoring urban environments to prevent small crimes such as vandalism, public drinking, and toll-jumping helps to create an atmosphere of order and lawfulness, thereby preventing more serious crimes from happening. I'm not sure how much of it can be applied to online discourse, but it does seem…

Do you really propose because we failed to contain ~crime against humanity we should at least talk nicely about?

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#137

Post by vanderZwan »

euyyn wrote: post #124
vanderZwan wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding point 4: piracy has provided the ability to masses to a wealth of obscure, hard to find cultural gems. I for example am into animation. There is no way I would have been able to access, legal or otherwise, half of the films I have seen, many of which are cultural milestones in the history of animation. Also, in wealth terms, if you start with the reasonable assumption that a pirated copy doesn't directly tr…

> if you start with the reasonable assumption that a pirated copy doesn't directly translate to a sales loss I think the reasonable assumption is that it translates on average to a fraction of a sale loss; less than one, but more than zero.

Even that is debatable, because it also creates exposure. This is especially true for non-mainstream stuff. So you might end up with a net sales-win because of the "advertising"

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#138

Post by mirimir »

watwut wrote: post #135
mirimir wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, those are Russians who are afraid. And yes, I ignored Stalin. He did horrible things. But then, Russians were afraid then, too.

Right now many people in Russia celebrate Stalin. Literally. And there is correlation between those and Putin fans.

Again, that's understandable. Russians are afraid. And arguably, with good reason.

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#139

Post by watwut »

mirimir wrote: post #138
watwut wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now many people in Russia celebrate Stalin. Literally. And there is correlation between those and Putin fans.

Again, that's understandable. Russians are afraid. And arguably, with good reason.

Afraid of what exactly that Stalin rule sounds safer?

Celebrating someone like Stalin is not about feeling safer. It is about wanting to rule ruthlessly.

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#140

Post by euyyn »

vanderZwan wrote: post #137
euyyn wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you start with the reasonable assumption that a pirated copy doesn't directly translate to a sales loss I think the reasonable assumption is that it translates on average to a fraction of a sale loss; less than one, but more than zero.

Even that is debatable, because it also creates exposure. This is especially true for non-mainstream stuff. So you might end up with a net sales-win because of the "advertising"

There's never been any impediment to people giving away their music for free to create exposure. To radio stations, TV, movies, as free concerts, as mp3s to download from their website, whatever.

The argument "I'm pirating the fruit of your work and investment against your will, but trust me it'll be in your best interest, I know your interest better than you do" is untenable.

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