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Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

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Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#271

Post by carapace »

Ahahahahhaha.. Oh wait, you're serious. AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA ahhahahha ha.

Seriously though, "government" is the attempt to manage human wickedness. It's a "not quite possible solution to a not quite solvable problem."

Gandhi said (I'm paraphrasing) that we cannot make a system so good that it relieves the people in it from the effort and duty to be good. Good neighbors, good citizens, good people.

In the Tao Te Ching we read that laws only arise once the people have turned away from "the Way" (goodness, virtue).

I agree that we must constrain our worst behaviour in these historical times, but the urge to control others is a symptom of the very illness it seeks to treat.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#272

Post by delazeur »

Avshalom wrote: post #241
delazeur wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is critical: clever math is not going to protect your assets from the organization that has a monopoly on violence.

It's not a monopoly that's important here, just willingness and ability. Jimmy-the-Stereotype is but one entrant in the free market of violence but he can still force you to liquidate your assets unless you have a grudge against your own kneecaps.

The term "monopoly on violence" refers specifically to legitimate violence.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#273

Post by quantdev »

With regards to cryptocurrencies, which the standard HN anti-crypto groupthink is bashing in full swing, let me just point out that most bashings I've seen on here are US-consumer-centric and don't consider the needs of countries with oppressive governments that aim to control the wealth and labor of their citizens. In these countries, cyrptocurrencies allow the movement of wealth to your family overseas, allow the store of wealth in the face of 30% inflation (Venezuela, Zimbabwe, etc.), and allow privacy and economic freedom. If your central bank wants to lower interest rates so that yields are even more negative, you can take yourself out of that system in which you have no vote or control. If you oppressive ruler wants to track every transaction and stop funding to political opponents, you can take yourself out of that system and do so if you wish.

Yes, it's not easy and not for everyone, but people in these countries go through enormous risk and effort to accomplish economic freedom.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#274

Post by [deleted] »

quantdev wrote: post #273

With regards to cryptocurrencies, which the standard HN anti-crypto groupthink is bashing in full swing, let me just point out that most bashings I've seen on here are US-consumer-centric and don't consider the needs of countries with oppressive governments that aim to control the wealth and labor of their citizens. In these countries, cyrptocurrencies allow the movement of wealth to your family overseas, allow the s…

[deleted]

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#275

Post by SippinLean »

calafrax wrote: post #215
mathieuuu wrote: post #38

I am amazed that in 2017, there is still people qualifying Bitcoin or Ethereum of ponzi schemes. Crypto currencies have a lot of problems (technical, economical, philosophical, ICO are insanes) but saying they are ponzi schemes is plain wrong. And it just takes 5 minutes of reading on Ponzi Schemes signs and basic knowledges of how those currencies work to understand why.

AFAIK the definition of a Ponzi scheme is a fake investment where no actual investment in productive activities takes place and all profits are paid out from increasing intakes. Bitcoin matches this definition exactly since pumping up the currency is not connected to any real world productive activity. Ethereum has some theoretical practical uses but most of the ICO nonsense is pure Ponzi. Defining a Ponzi can be dif…

Well you have a poor understanding of the definition of a Ponzi scheme. ICOs do not make any promise of a return on investment or paid dividends, the way a Ponzi operator would. Coin makers do not use the income from new investors to pay dividends to older investors, the way a Ponzi operator would.

You are buying the currency, once you receive it the contract with the coin's creators is fulfilled, you are not an investor, you do not own any shares of any company. It is a one-way transaction.

Perhaps you meant pyramid scheme, of which ICOs are also not an example.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#276

Post by SippinLean »

the_cat_kittles wrote: post #9

these things are strike me as greater-fool schemes. everyone hops on thinking they are probably ahead of the curve, and most of them are suckers. what a funny game- the skill is knowing how many other people will go for it.

Or maybe some of them actually want to just use the products? You can install and use Sia today, for example.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#277

Post by Avshalom »

delazeur wrote: post #272
Avshalom wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a monopoly that's important here, just willingness and ability. Jimmy-the-Stereotype is but one entrant in the free market of violence but he can still force you to liquidate your assets unless you have a grudge against your own kneecaps.

The term "monopoly on violence" refers specifically to legitimate violence. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

Yes but rubber hose cryptanalysis works equally well regardless of the legitimacy.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#278

Post by RikNieu »

pascalxus wrote: post #258
MachinShinn- wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Many firms funded by ICOs (or soon to be) have qualified leaders and developers and are developing great ideas, but IMO many are also raising too much money for their own good. No, there aren't. Real money has never been cheaper than it is now. Never in human history. USD, Euros, JPY, etc. Super cheaper. Low single digits to borrow. Anyone doing an 'ICO' is trying to cash out at your expense, big time.

Welcome to the everything bubble. For those of us keeping a list, here it is: - Government spending/borrowing bubble - Education Loans bubble - Housing bubble (at least in CA, but also worldwide to some degree) - Bit coin, Ethereum, Coin bubble - Stock market looks a bit frothy too - all the leading technical indicators show things won't be too rosy for the next 10 years. Did I miss any?

Gold? How's gold doing?

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#279

Post by rini17 »

logfromblammo wrote: post #257
epa wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's a currency that can't buy much of anything, Yet. Everything needs to start somewhere.

And when faced with competition from legitimized currencies, that somewhere is black market goods and services. Eventually, someone asks the question, "Why can I buy weed with Bitcoin, but not pizza and chips?" And delivery of munchies is a legit business that can be advertised. Once recognized as a viable model, it can then be poached by major corporate players as part of a local pilot program, which can then be rol…

Keep in mind that usage of "legitimized" currencies is being actively constrained, there are limits on cash transactions, they are/can be easily seized.. every time this happens crypto looks better in comaprison.

And in Europe one already can pay electric bill and pizza with crypto. While only few utilities already accept them directly, many more enterprises want to establish themselves on this emerging market by mediating these transactions.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#280

Post by ebcode »

delazeur wrote: post #195
ebcode wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments do not protect everyone, or provide basic services to everyone, equally. Also, unless you were there for the revolution, you didn't agree to the laws of the land where you happened to be born. As an anarchist, I don't find my relationship with my government to be one that I would enter into willingly if I were given the freedom not to. Instead, I live under the constant threat of state-sanctioned violence…

> Governments do not protect everyone, or provide basic services to everyone, equally. That's true, but why is your response is to check out of society rather than to push for constructive changes? Why should I respect your choice to take your ball and go home?

Well, first off, I don't think that advocating for anarchy/no government is "checking out of society." It's not like I'm saying "f* society, let's all be hermits!" I'm saying, "let's stop using state-sanctioned violence to oppress people into obedience." Secondly, your idea of constructive change and my idea of constructive change are going to be different. I'm not taking my ball and going home; I'm taking my ball and saying, "I just don't want to play dodgeball with you guys. I want to juggle. If you want to juggle too, bring your balls over to the park and let's juggle together."
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