Whatever the underlying paper says, this article is terrible. It never explains why a bunch of low paying jobs being replaced with the same number of high paying ones is bad, other than some hand-waving about low skilled workers being left out. Where did all these new high skilled workers come from?
A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
41–50 of 235 posts
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#42The problem I have with the minimum wage is that it transfers wealth from the very poorest to the mid-working class/lower middle class.
Who am I to tell a homeless person that she is legally forbidden to engage in a voluntary, hourly employment contract for less than $15/hr? I would effectively be guaranteeing that she stays unemployed/homeless. Regardless of practical effects (which are ambiguous at best), it's wrong on moral grounds.
On the other hand, the minimum wage definitely benefits middle class teenagers on their first jobs (if they can get a job), and has questionable benefit for millennial humanities college grads who have yet to start a career. For them, the higher wage comes with fewer hours, according to this study.
In the long run though, the more we raise the minimum wage, the sooner the local price inflation catches up. Getting a casual meal in Seattle is NOT cheap right now.
EDIT: I'll throw in that I think a very basic income with no minimum wage/unemployment/other welfare is much smarter fiscally and economically, and is the only way to largely eliminate extreme poverty. And it's sad that HN readers flagged this article because it challenges a conventional liberal talking point.
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#43I really dislike this framing. By any contemporary definition I'm a "liberal":
* I support higher taxes, particularly on higher income people, almost for its own sake.
* I oppose almost all military intervention abroad.
* I believe the federal government needs to intervene with local governments to prevent police abuses.
* I strongly support public schools and oppose public-funded charters.
... and I could go on and on this way.
On the other hand, I do not believe in a high national minimum wage, or in a small number of other "liberal" orthodoxies^h^h^h^h^hidees fixes (like universal college tuition, or single-payer health care).
Why am I meant to feel like my "team" lost something when a study confirms something that most economists have been saying for decades?
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#44If your business cannot pay employees a livable wage, it does not deserve to exist.
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#45Uh, businesses. You are supposed to raise prices, effectively taxing those rich customers. Did you forget that part?
You say that like that’s a choice they can make without any consequences.
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#46The successful Scandinavian model doesn't have any minimum wages for a reason.
Nor does Germany with some of the best working conditions in the world...
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#47>> to avoid confusing establishments that were subject to the minimum with those that were not, the authors did not include large employers with locations both inside and outside of Seattle in their calculations. I read this to mean that the study therefore would exclude employers such as Seattle-based Starbucks, Seattle-based Amazon, Seattle-based Costco, Seattle-based Nordstrom, McDonald's, etc. Based on that readi…
I'm not intelligent enough to say either way. I do think that excluding them was a good idea. If the only businesses that can survive a law are massive multi-national corporations, we've got a problem...
OTOH if they draw conclusions from data that only very poorly reflects the Seattle labour market the study's got a problem
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#48Uh, businesses. You are supposed to raise prices, effectively taxing those rich customers. Did you forget that part?
Effectively taxing all customers. The poor buy stuff too...
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#49tldr; * The study uses more precise data than similar prior studies and comes to a sharply different conclusion. * Economists generally want to disbelieve this study, because the results aren't promising, but the method used is largely credible and the data is more precise. * The impact, according to the study, is that to compensate for the higher wages employers are continuing to hire but only highly skilled candida…
"Economists" want to disbelieve the study? Can you support that with evidence? There are definitely liberal economists and conservative economists, but I don't think it's at all clear that the mainstream of economists broadly support a sharply increased minimum wage.
Re: A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news
#50I find this to be credible - at some level, it'll certainly hurt. The problem as I see it is that some people say "aha, see, that doesn't work", but then stop there. There is a real problem in that some people (not all who make minimum wage, and not only those who make minimum wage) have real problems making ends meet. What's the best way to help them?
Increase social services funding by taxing the rich and closing tax-dodging loopholes (like capital gains, etc.).
can you elaborate on this capital gains tax loophole?