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I decided to disable AMP on my site

alexkras.com

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Re: I decided to disable AMP on my site

#181

Post by Adverblessly »

apeace wrote: post #174

> It “traps” users on Google. If user were to click “x” in the screenshot above, they will be taken back to Google search results. A normal redirect would have landed users on actual BBC site, maximizing their chances of staying on that site. Instead, AMP makes it easier for users to return to Google. As a user, this is what I want. I don't care about the BBC's site, I care about what I searched for. If I want to see…

> I do hope that Google adds an option in your account settings to opt-out of AMP results. That way the detractors can turn it off, and everyone else can be happy that pages load in This is not exactly what you want, but you can choose to open all search results (and by extension AMP results) in an external browser instead of the search app. For me, opening AMP links on FireFox redirects me to the non-AMP page, effectively eliminating AMP pages (technically they are still AMP results but in practice you get redirected to the non-AMP page).

To do that, from https://support.google.com/websearch/answer/7013866?hl=en - Open the Google search app. Tap the hamburger menu. Tap Settings. Tap "Accounts & Privacy". Turn off "Open web pages in app".

Re: I decided to disable AMP on my site

#182

Post by TeMPOraL »

jacquesm wrote: post #149
TeMPOraL wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, assuming it works well, that's kind of exactly what I want as a user. Whenever I'm searching for one of the following (which form a large fraction of my searches): - definition of a word - lyrics of a song - summary of a movie - phone number and/or address of a business - distance between places - unit or currency conversions - weather I have no desire to "click through" to anything. I want my piece of…

Well, then maybe, you know, Google should actually create that content rather than plagiarize it?

That's a different issue altogether. The information is there, it's freely and publicly available (by definition - if it weren't, it wouldn't show in search engines' results) - it's just in the wrong format.

I'm increasingly more convinced that the best way to save open, distributed web would be to kill off Internet commerce. Think of it this way: when I'm searching for information, I'm like a fish searching for food. There are places where it naturally occurs, but more and more food is placed by businesses, who attach them to hooks in order to bait me into spending time and money on stuff I don't want. Great for the fishermen, but in this story I'm a fish.

(Sure it's a pipe dream, but it serves to highlight the conflict of interest. As an Internet user, I seek information - not deals, contracts, and all the other strings people try and attach to that information.)

Re: I decided to disable AMP on my site

#183

Post by niutech »

AznHisoka wrote: post #82
josteink wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AMP does not seem like a walled garden tech. any crawler can find and use the AMP version of a page through this tag So "any crawler" who is willing to slavishly follow whatever Google is currently doing, and currently doing in the open (who knows how long that will last), can technically get access to the same content so it's not a "walled garden". To me it sounds like Google doing yet another non-standard thing w…

So lets say AMP was not invented. Web pages have been notoriously slow on mobile for a decade. Where is this open standard to make pages lod faster? where is W3 or Mozilla? Its been a decade. if there was a competituve open standard I would be against AMP but there isnt.

Actually, there is a competitive standard to AMP: Mobile Instant Pages (MIP) from Baidu - https://www.mipengine.org

Re: I decided to disable AMP on my site

#184

Post by jacquesm »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #182
jacquesm wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, then maybe, you know, Google should actually create that content rather than plagiarize it?

That's a different issue altogether. The information is there, it's freely and publicly available (by definition - if it weren't, it wouldn't show in search engines' results) - it's just in the wrong format . I'm increasingly more convinced that the best way to save open, distributed web would be to kill off Internet commerce . Think of it this way: when I'm searching for information, I'm like a fish searching for fo…

> The information is there, it's freely and publicly available (by definition - if it weren't, it wouldn't show in search engines' results) - it's just in the wrong format.

No, there is such a thing as copyright. That Google ignores it doesn't make it any more right than when Hollywood balks at piracy because piracy tends to make bits available in 'the right format'. That knife cuts both ways.

> I'm increasingly more convinced that the best way to save open, distributed web would be to kill off Internet commerce.

Well, that won't happen.

> Think of it this way: when I'm searching for information, I'm like a fish searching for food. There are places where it naturally occurs, but more and more food is placed by businesses, who attach them to hooks in order to bait me into spending time and money on stuff I don't want. Great for the fishermen, but in this story I'm a fish.

Google is one of the fishermen, in fact, they are running the largest trawler on the planet.

Re: I decided to disable AMP on my site

#185

Post by omnifischer »

zero_shift wrote: post #112
omnifischer wrote: post #61

@alexkras Sorry this comes from me in Nigeria using a second-hand MotoG (1.Gen). May be your website is not loading 23 trackers + unnecessary js. But many websites, load such crap. Please especially in third-world, we have so poor phones. Only google-CDN avoids all these. (yes, google does track me but we do not all have unlimited bandwidth).

Low-power phones in developing nations were exactly the platform we targeted when implementing _The Guardian_, and I would advise every seriously global publisher to do the same.

even amp.guardian page has 33 requests (677kB) whereas cdn.ampproject.org has 4 requests (124kB). Try this: https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/amp.thegu... or https://amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/jun/22/brexit-... Are you from Guardian?

Re: I decided to disable AMP on my site

#186

Post by sr2 »

chris__butters wrote: post #4
boramalper wrote: post #2

The author has some very valid points against AMP from a technical standpoint, but for me there is a single reason that is sufficient: the Web is, and should stay, free and open . Indeed, I'm having really hard time trying to understand how people can be fine with AMP while fighting for the net neutrality and so on.

Completely agree, while technically AMP is suitable but it creates a walled garden by using Google - who actually boost page rankings if you use it, so they have publishers by the balls "forcing" them to use AMP to get higher in their rankings.

> So they have publishers by the balls "forcing" them to use AMP to get higher in their rankings.

Except that I don't write blogposts to please the Google search engine. A site can be found via many other ways. News sites like Reddit are a great way to be discovered, aswell as HN. There's also link dumps like Pinboard which are another way to discover, aswell as others. Twitter, etc

Re: I decided to disable AMP on my site

#187

Post by kuschku »

shawnz wrote: post #118
kuschku wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AMP has the wall. Can I get the same display in the Google Search with or without AMP? No. That’s the wall.

Then is HTTPS also a wall, given that HTTPS results are favoured by Google search?

What? With HTTPS, I get full control.

With AMP, I get a different search ranking if I use Google’s AMP version, or if I self-host the AMP scripts (to prevent users being tracked by Google).

I have to allow every user of my site to be tracked by Google if I want to get the AMP ranking advantage.

I can’t fork AMP.

The ranking advantage is given only if you use Google’s AMP cache.

How can you seriously compare this with HTTPS?

Re: I decided to disable AMP on my site

#188

Post by coldtea »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #144
jacquesm wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way to be any more against the free and open web is if they made Google search a web proxy where you never get access to the underlying page... Give it some time. They are pulling more and more content into the search results pages which has roughly that effect, since people no longer click through.

Interestingly, assuming it works well, that's kind of exactly what I want as a user. Whenever I'm searching for one of the following (which form a large fraction of my searches): - definition of a word - lyrics of a song - summary of a movie - phone number and/or address of a business - distance between places - unit or currency conversions - weather I have no desire to "click through" to anything. I want my piece of…

>I have no desire to "click through" to anything. I want my piece of information, a raw fact.

Do you also want the original content creators to starve and die off and the only competent content source left to be either Google's archive or Google's lacklustre service for the same thing?

Re: I decided to disable AMP on my site

#189

Post by TeMPOraL »

jacquesm wrote: post #184
TeMPOraL wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a different issue altogether. The information is there, it's freely and publicly available (by definition - if it weren't, it wouldn't show in search engines' results) - it's just in the wrong format . I'm increasingly more convinced that the best way to save open, distributed web would be to kill off Internet commerce . Think of it this way: when I'm searching for information, I'm like a fish searching for fo…

> The information is there, it's freely and publicly available (by definition - if it weren't, it wouldn't show in search engines' results) - it's just in the wrong format. No, there is such a thing as copyright. That Google ignores it doesn't make it any more right than when Hollywood balks at piracy because piracy tends to make bits available in 'the right format'. That knife cuts both ways. > I'm increasingly more…

> No, there is such a thing as copyright.

Copyright is rightfully seen a problem on the Internet :). Personally I'm currently fine with both pirates offering bits in the "right format" and with Google offering information in a better format - especially that they don't have any monopoly for that, just enough man-hours and burnable cash to do it first.

(INB4: I do respect copyright (at least more often than not), but I still believe it's ill-suited for the digital age.)

> Well, that won't happen.

One can dream, though...

> Google is one of the fishermen, in fact, they are running the largest trawler on the planet.

I know. I don't want any form of Google monopoly. I don't like AMP either. My only point is that Google displaying content in search results is an example of a better interface to the Web than the regular site visit; it saves me time, clicks, and prevents me from being exposed to all kinds of crap I don't want to see. I'm definitely not arguing we need Google for that - just that I wish we'd all go much further into that direction, preferably with free and open-source tools.

Re: I decided to disable AMP on my site

#190

Post by coldtea »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #182
jacquesm wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, then maybe, you know, Google should actually create that content rather than plagiarize it?

That's a different issue altogether. The information is there, it's freely and publicly available (by definition - if it weren't, it wouldn't show in search engines' results) - it's just in the wrong format . I'm increasingly more convinced that the best way to save open, distributed web would be to kill off Internet commerce . Think of it this way: when I'm searching for information, I'm like a fish searching for fo…

>I'm increasingly more convinced that the best way to save open, distributed web would be to kill off Internet commerce. Think of it this way: when I'm searching for information, I'm like a fish searching for food.

Look at it this way: people doing internet commerce are also searching for food -- to put it on their table.

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