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Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

nytimes.com

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Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#211

Post by pikzen »

Jabanga wrote: post #180
pikzen wrote: post #143

>the inability to control people. What's horrifying is people thinking like that. We live in societies with rules, with laws that we have agreed upon, and are, for the most part, fair. These same laws and this same governement protects you, gives you at least some basic services. And you're advocating for not holding up your end of the bargain, and removing one big part of the punishment for not holding it up. To peo…

>We live in societies with rules, with laws that we have agreed upon, and are, for the most part, fair. Societies have gradually grown more unfair as the political system has strained under their growing complexity. According to political scientists, the average voter has an extremely limited understanding of what their government is doing. The typical person's understanding of economics is similarly extremely limite…

>Your comment genuinely horrifies me. I presume you're saying you want people who don't comply to be put behind bars, for extended lengths of time. And their crime, that you insist is harming the rest us, is to not comply with a plan that the majority imposed on them. You've justified it in your mind by arguing that these people accepted a bargain, and are now not holding up their end of it.

If your desire is to go live in Libertopia, please do so. Renounce your citizenship. There's no justification in my mind, you have the choice. Unhappy with paying your taxes, or having to give away some of your money for the good of society? Then leave behind _everything_ this society has brought you. Let's see how you do. The amount of selfishness behind those comments is astounding. You are perfectly happy with reaping the benefits of said society, while not wanting to contribute back through the rules that have been established.

Yes, it's tyranny of the majority. Do you know why? Because it is the best system we have, for now. Do you want to live in a society where taxes are a thing of the past? Then educate. Educate your fellow man, try to make him understand why this is (according to you), a good thing. And maybe you'll convince him. And maybe you'll convince more. And maybe, one day, your grand-grandchild will live in such a world.

In the mean time, we have agreed upon these rules for decades, and since it hasn't changed, it seems like your ideology isn't what people want.

>When seemingly intelligent and articulate people so easily rationalize imprisoning their fellow man and woman, it's horrifying to witness.

I mean, if you want the punishment to be rubbing your face in the dirt until you understand _why_ things are the way they are and why this is better than your idea now, I'm down for it. But since the two things you seem to value are wealth and freedom, and you're not willing to give up your wealth when you have to be punished, we can only act on the latter.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#212

Post by Alex3917 »

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #139
Alex3917 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is the height of tech arrogance, not to mention a gross lack of awareness of history, to put a yet largely unproven technology that most of the human population has not even heard of on the same level as vaccinations I said 'economically important'. The couple years they add to our life expectancy is great, but vaccines weren't really associated with an enormous transfer of wealth on the same level as, say, the…

> Weren't really associated with an enormous transfer of wealth on the same level as, say, the railroads or the age of sail. How do you predict wealth will transfer differently under blockchains than with usual state backed currencies. Not the literal (you don't need a bank), but societal? If block chains were to completely replace US currency, but society used them exactly the same, then they wouldn't be a transform…

I'll blog about this in the next few months, I'm going to wait until the hype dies down first though because I don't want to encourage other folks to make bad life decisions, and also so I can buy what I want to hold until the next cycle.

What I would say though is that blockchain has nothing to do with currency, that's just a red herring out there to trick people into not seeing its transformative potential. It's about reaching consensus and being able to make decisions at a society-wide level. I blogged about the implications of this is a little in 2006, before any of this was even invented: http://www.alexkrupp.com/fourwebs.html

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#213

Post by peculiar »

thejay wrote: post #22
nodesocket wrote: post #4

I'm sorry but this is so absurd. They are doing the equivalent of printing their own monopoly money in the garage and then selling it for real currency... dollars.

Pretty much what the central banks are doing around the world.

>> They are doing the equivalent of printing their own monopoly money in the garage and then selling it for real currency...

> Pretty much what the central banks are doing around the world.

Exactly. So why choose the currency of a couple of dudes over the central bank's one? Show me an ethical cryptocurrency with equal opportunities for everyone and no taxes in a form of pre-mining, decreasing block rewards & other stuff like that and I'll be the first one to use it.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#214

Post by zimzam »

piaste wrote: post #162
agrajag wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I buy a house or a car with cryptocurrency that can be confiscated. If I live a lavish lifestyle while under a judgement I'm not paying, then the court can imprison me indefinitely under contempt of court. Courts have centuries of case law for how to deal with people that hide assets from judgements. They're not going to care whether your assets are in a shell company or a cryptocurrency.

You are correct, when it comes to protecting your assets from (minimally competent) authorities, cryptocurrencies aren't much better than a hole in the ground full of cash. Where they are much better than a hole in the ground is when it comes to moving your assets to a different jurisdiction . As long as you can physically get yourself from Somecountry to Othercountry, all your e-cash will be accessible in Othercount…

Sure, but extradition treaties make the list of viable country hops limited.

You also can only pull this trick once: after you are a known flight risk the next country to come after you will be careful to make sure your detainment comes as a surprise.

Finally, as much fun as it can be to game out, for how many people in the world is this use case actually applicable?

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#215

Post by calafrax »

mathieuuu wrote: post #38

I am amazed that in 2017, there is still people qualifying Bitcoin or Ethereum of ponzi schemes. Crypto currencies have a lot of problems (technical, economical, philosophical, ICO are insanes) but saying they are ponzi schemes is plain wrong. And it just takes 5 minutes of reading on Ponzi Schemes signs and basic knowledges of how those currencies work to understand why.

AFAIK the definition of a Ponzi scheme is a fake investment where no actual investment in productive activities takes place and all profits are paid out from increasing intakes.

Bitcoin matches this definition exactly since pumping up the currency is not connected to any real world productive activity.

Ethereum has some theoretical practical uses but most of the ICO nonsense is pure Ponzi.

Defining a Ponzi can be difficult because in order for something to truly be a Ponzi scheme it must be engaged in with fraudulent intent.

Really stupid people who "invest" in really stupid things and waste their money on useless stupid activity don't count as a Ponzi because they don't have fraudulent intent. They are just really stupid.

Whatever participants in digital currencies are not in the first category are in the second category so it isn't much to be excited about.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#216

Post by calafrax »

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #152
RexetBlell wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are as much a Ponzi scheme as gold (which has almost no practical use) and ugly paintings that cost millions http://www.therichest.com/luxury/most-expensive/10-ugly-piec... If expensive ugly paintings are not a Ponzi scheme, then cryptocurrencies are not a Ponzi scheme.

Ether is more like oil - it is a fuel source used to power smart contracts, token sales, and autonomous organizations.

Yeah, just like oil, except completely useless.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#217

Post by GreaterFool »

It's been a running joke for a while that the easiest way to be a blockchain consultant is to charge $50k to say "you don't need blockchain for that". Not it seems the 2017 version is to charge 1M to say "you don't need a special token for that".

ICOs are not the micro-investing many would like to see and the use of a special tokens distinct from ETH is rather contrived.

That said, if people are willing to throw money at it, so be it. But the amounts are quite frankly insane.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#218

Post by DennisP »

RexetBlell wrote: post #81
lettergram wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Ethereum looks like a scheme of some kind (not Ponzi necessarily). The vast majority of the ether is controlled by a single company, which is literally just selling it for money. ... I get the other advantages to Ethereum, but it's not Bitcoin where there is actually a distributed number of people managing it.

What makes you think that the majority of ETH is controlled by a single company? What company is this? Do you have a source for this?

Some people get that impression because the majority of ETH was premined. What they miss is that most of that was sold to the general public in the presale. Only 12% of it was not; half of that went to team members (some now sold) and the other half to the nonprofit foundation which is continuing development of the protocol.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#219

Post by DennisP »

nathan_f77 wrote: post #171
ailideex wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This analogy is not accurate.

"gas" is actually a common term used in the Ethereum community. [1] [2] [1] https://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/3/what-is-meant... [2] https://www.ethereum.org/token

Yes but ETH and gas are not the same thing. You use ETH to buy your gas. The gas is burned up in use. ETH is paid to the miners, who can use it to pay their expenses.
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