Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering • Hacker News Board

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#201

Post by rensgspzn » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 1:03 PM UTC

Jabanga wrote: post #180

pikzen wrote: post #143

>the inability to control people. What's horrifying is people thinking like that. We live in societies with rules, with laws that we have agreed upon, and are, for the most part, fair. These same laws and this same governement protects you, gives you at least some basic services. And you're advocating for not holding up your end of the bargain, and removing one big part of the punishment for not holding it up. To peo…

>We live in societies with rules, with laws that we have agreed upon, and are, for the most part, fair. Societies have gradually grown more unfair as the political system has strained under their growing complexity. According to political scientists, the average voter has an extremely limited understanding of what their government is doing. The typical person's understanding of economics is similarly extremely limite…

Wish I could upvote this comment 1000x.

pikzen said:

> We live in societies with rules, with laws that we have agreed upon, and are, for the most part, fair.

Please review the highlights of the last ~150 years of American history. If you need a very long list of examples that contradict your statement, I'd be happy to oblige.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#202

Post by tomascot » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 1:05 PM UTC

douche wrote: post #62

Alex3917 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blockchain is perhaps the most economically important invention of the last 500 years. Right now the whole space is worth less than $100B, and it's going to be worth tens or hundreds of trillions of dollars. Obviously valuations have far outpaced the present usefulness of these technologies, but because the pie is so enormous it would be irrational not to overpay. Right now prices are too out-of-whack with reality so…

Blockchain is just another square on the enterprise bingo game. You know something has jumped the shark when IBM global services starts pushing it.

I wouldn't trust IBM that much, I mean, they just want to be able to say they are working on cutting edge tech to impress some executives.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#203

Post by CPLX » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 1:07 PM UTC

aub3bhat wrote: post #191

Jabanga wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments are not a conscious entity that is separate from society. They are institutions run by a collection parties with numerous competing and aligning interests, and with extensive stakes in society at large. They're not going to do something as massively destructive to society at large as ban encryption and prohibit all microprocessors lacking a back door.

HN/BitcoinTalk/etc, suffer from extreme (pro-crypto) filter bubble. The average man/woman on the street ("society") could care less about Bitcoin/Ether. Just look at the whole Net Neutrality debate. Bitcoin/Ether barely register in terms of the total economic activity (75 Billion $). With significant fraction unusable. They will either be tamed or destroyed. In fact another way of looking at cryptocurrencies is as a…

> The moment digital transactions become cheaper/more-efficient, the allure of crypto-currencies will disappear.

Except for drugs, contraband, money laundering, and evading capital controls. Which, from day one, has been the entire actual value of these things and remains so.

That's a reasonably big business to be sure, but it will always remain a niche element and always be under fire, for obvious reasons.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#204

Post by wc- » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 1:10 PM UTC

BoiledCabbage wrote: post #140

RexetBlell wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are as much a Ponzi scheme as gold (which has almost no practical use) and ugly paintings that cost millions http://www.therichest.com/luxury/most-expensive/10-ugly-piec... If expensive ugly paintings are not a Ponzi scheme, then cryptocurrencies are not a Ponzi scheme.

Gold isn't a "Ponzi scheme". Even if you believe that investing in gold makes no sense, and it's a useless metal with no practical purposes, and it's a bubble waiting to burst and so on, that still doesn't make it a Ponzi scheme. Even if all of those beliefs above were true, it still wouldn't be a Ponzi scheme. As someone else posted in here, Ponzi Scheme has a fairly specific definition which "Gold" doesn't meet.

[Cryptocurrency] isn't a "Ponzi scheme". Even if you believe that investing in [Cryptocurrency] makes no sense, and it's a useless [tech] with no practical purposes, and it's a bubble waiting to burst and so on, that still doesn't make it a Ponzi scheme.

Even if all of those beliefs above were true, it still wouldn't be a Ponzi scheme. As someone else posted in here, Ponzi Scheme has a fairly specific definition which "[Cryptocurrency]" doesn't meet.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#205

Post by pikzen » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 1:13 PM UTC

rensgspzn wrote: post #201

Jabanga wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We live in societies with rules, with laws that we have agreed upon, and are, for the most part, fair. Societies have gradually grown more unfair as the political system has strained under their growing complexity. According to political scientists, the average voter has an extremely limited understanding of what their government is doing. The typical person's understanding of economics is similarly extremely limite…

Wish I could upvote this comment 1000x. pikzen said: > We live in societies with rules, with laws that we have agreed upon, and are, for the most part, fair. Please review the highlights of the last ~150 years of American history. If you need a very long list of examples that contradict your statement, I'd be happy to oblige.

Yet those laws are mostly not there anymore. And we are pushing forward. We _are_ making a fairer society for everyone. And yes, the US is late on that. Look to Europe for better examples.

You're advocating for throwing down all that's on the table and burning everything, because you want your money. I'm trying to make society go forward and improve life for everyone.

Please review the highlights of what an organised society has brought us. If you need a very long list of examples of how selfish, greedy people has damaged our world, just look outside your window.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#206

Post by wc- » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 1:15 PM UTC

equityloan wrote: post #164

So these ICOs are currently legal? In that case, is it legal to have an ICO for shares in an existing private company? I am imagining the following scenario: Someone has some vested shares in a startup. They send proof of their shares to some administrators of this hypothetical service. The shares are then listed on the website. Someone browses the website and decides that they like the company, and they want to inve…

It is important to clarify that buying one of these tokens does not result in you owning a 'share' or a percentage of the company that issued them. Some lawyers are using this lack of ownership as a critical part of their argument that tokens are not a security and therefore ICO's are legal.

It's complicated and a very gray area right now. In response to this gray-ness, ICO's are now requiring investors to declare that they are not from the USA and some are geoblocking USA residents.

Obviously this means nothing, if a US citizen wants to buy they still will, but it is an interesting case of Cover Your Ass From the SEC taken by the ICO companies.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#207

Post by adbachman » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 1:15 PM UTC

sleepychu wrote: post #151

Last month, a small team of computer engineers in Lithuania raised $14 million in 45 minutes by selling a coin, known as Mysterium, that is intended to give access to an encrypted online data service that is still being built. There has to be more background to this? Why would they ever bother building the service if they have the 14M in cash?

Because unless they've sold their ethereum, they don't have $14mil or equivalent CHF, they've got ehthereum worth that much.

It's imaginary money, still, or I'm sure they would cash out.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#208

Post by CPLX » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 1:16 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #54

CPLX wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be #3 behind the transistor and the internal combustion engine.

What's valuable isn't the transistor and the internal combustion engine themselves per say, but rather the new networks they enable: rail, roads, informations, etc. Blockchain is also a new network, and the math for analyzing its value is the same as the math for analyzing the value of any other network. In this case I would say that it's going to be the most valuable new network since the rise of global shipping dur…

Actually the blockchain might be #4, behind the discovery of the concept of atoms and molecules and the resultant birth of modern chemistry in the 1600's.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#209

Post by adbachman » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 1:19 PM UTC

thebiglebrewski wrote: post #117

kbaker wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Get a bunch of Eth. 2) Invest in the right ICO. Not the wrong one, where the value drops to zero.

I've bought some Ethereum. Why should I buy more though? Do you have a theory of future value for it?

Sell it when it goes up, but make sure you decide to sell before everyone else decides to sell.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#210

Post by Sone7 » Mon, Jun 26, 2017, 1:22 PM UTC

pikzen wrote: post #205

rensgspzn wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wish I could upvote this comment 1000x. pikzen said: > We live in societies with rules, with laws that we have agreed upon, and are, for the most part, fair. Please review the highlights of the last ~150 years of American history. If you need a very long list of examples that contradict your statement, I'd be happy to oblige.

Yet those laws are mostly not there anymore. And we are pushing forward. We _are_ making a fairer society for everyone. And yes, the US is late on that. Look to Europe for better examples. You're advocating for throwing down all that's on the table and burning everything, because you want your money. I'm trying to make society go forward and improve life for everyone. Please review the highlights of what an organised…

>You're advocating for throwing down all that's on the table and burning everything, because you want your money. I'm trying to make society go forward and improve life for everyone.

Er, you really need to look back o'er this thread...