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Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

bjoern.brembs.net

81–90 of 144 posts

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#81
post #34

I wonder if closed-access publishing is part of why academia seems so insluated from the "real world". People write for their audience, and if the general public can't read academic papers, then academics are going to write as if only other academics are reading. Likewise, if research output is difficult to access, the feedback loop between ideas and implementation is broken; folks outside academia can't easily comme…

Closed-access isn't the factor here; I'm in a field where pretty much all relevant publications are open access, and the same happens.

We're writing that way because we are the explicit intended audience anyway - the purpose of journals and conferences is not to write about our research and see who wants to read it, but entirely the opposite, to make up a venue that a particular research community wants to read and then ask for submissions that would be interesting to other researchers.

Public dissemination is not part of the research-publish feedback loop which drives the actual research, it's a (useful) output out of that loop but not really part of it.

The feedback loop is an exchange of novel research, not finding out "what others think of your work". If you've got a better method, that's interesting; if you've got a novel use case of a method that I know, that's interesting; if you've got experimental evidence that contradicts mine, that's interesting; but that's all novel research that would be publishable even with all the existing filters, and pretty much requires the person to be familiar with the field (by which I mean having spent at least hundreds of hours reading relevant research beforehand).

Comments, especially uninformed ones, have too low signal-to-noise to be worth reading - any active field of research produces more than a person can read anyway, so if anything the researchers want stricter filtering that reduces noise. That's a major purpose for the more selective venues; I want someone else to read and reject most of academic publishing so that I don't have to read it just to mutter the same objections that the reviewers would've had, just with more obscenities.

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#82

This round is going to be fun. See, I'm old enough to remember this battle starting for music and movies. We know how that ended. But now, it's for the very knowledge that drives our civilization. "Stallman was right", oh how that statement is going to get tested.

This is quite different to music and film for a variety of reasons:

1. Film and music were always vaguely reasonably priced, and collecting a fee is totally reasonable - at least some of the money goes to the creators. This is not true for papers. The authors are never paid and the prices are insane.

2. Music & videos are luxuries, and are also somewhat fungible. If you need a specific paper (e.g. because it was referenced by another) you usually can't just swap it for another.

3. The actual files are usually a lot smaller than music and definitely smaller than films, so it will be easier to share entire libraries and hence harder to stop.

4. Morality is clearly on the side of sci-hub. Music/film piracy is much more ambiguous.

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#83

This means it is our duty to the citizens to reduce our publishing expenses to no more than currently ~US$200m per year (and we would even increase the value of the literature by making it open to boot!). If we were to do that, we’d have US$9.8b every single year to buy all the different infrastructure solutions that already exist to support all our intellectual outputs, be that text, data or code. Is is also our dut…

I don't believe the publishing model is significantly impeding progress in science , but that doesn't change the fact that the publishing companies are simply leeches, profiting off the work and labor of others. It's worth breaking that up, because there's no actual value there.

One example how it is messing up progress: Someone publishes a wrong study with loud claims. The press eager to report something new is racing to spread the false claims around.

There is no counter-balancing force - journalist have no interest in debunking the myriad falsehoods. But the public has a real interest in knowing, particularly when there are health concerns.

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#84
post #30

In my experience as a mathematician, most for profit journal publishing companies are essentially rentiers making money off a captive clientele, who don't even get much utility any more from them, except for access to some older articles. Moreover, the services they provide to authors are also usually worse than the non-profit journals: no copy editing, crappy editorial tools, just a complete disregard for the actual…

Ceterum censeo Elsevier esse delendum.

Delenda Carthago, delenda springer?

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#85

This round is going to be fun. See, I'm old enough to remember this battle starting for music and movies. We know how that ended. But now, it's for the very knowledge that drives our civilization. "Stallman was right", oh how that statement is going to get tested.

>See, I'm old enough to remember this battle starting for music and movies. We know how that ended.

Extremely affordable all you can eat subscription models?

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#86
post #64

This round is going to be fun. See, I'm old enough to remember this battle starting for music and movies. We know how that ended. But now, it's for the very knowledge that drives our civilization. "Stallman was right", oh how that statement is going to get tested.

I think it's a right-of-passage now for every technology-orientated person to realise that Stallman isn't crazy after all this time about Intel, social media and the general degenerating human race he always bangs on about...

Well, I still think Stallman is quite crazy still, but makes some excellent points too. He's definitely not stupid.

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#87

Worth noting: Many authors will be happy to email you a copy of their paper. People understand that not everyone's library can pay the hundreds of thousands needed for subscription fees. Research Gate has this functionality built in. Also, everyone likes to be cited :) Being easy to circumvent is a big reason why these for profit journals still exist.

My former advisor keeps his .edu webpage full of pre-print versions of every paper that he has published. I'm not sure if every journal is okay with this, but I'm also not positive that he would stop if prompted. He'd probably just target other journals.

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#88
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a right-of-passage now for every technology-orientated person to realise that Stallman isn't crazy after all this time about Intel, social media and the general degenerating human race he always bangs on about...

Rite of passage, instead of right. :)

Thanks!!!

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#89
I am not an English native speaker, but for me saying it like "Effective civil disobedience" seems like undervaluing what Alexandra is doing as this goes greatly punished in the USA and allies. I think we all know the story of Aaron Swartz and others. This is not the kind of civil disobedience where the government/institutions say "oh yeah, you were right, thank you". It is the kind of disobedience that will break you in all possible ways and then you are forgotten in a hole. It is the kind of story that we should all be ashamed of and luckily she is out of reach (as some others actually doing good for humanity).

Re: Sci-Hub as Necessary, Effective Civil Disobedience

#90
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"essentially free access" costs libraries thousands to millions of dollars a year. For publicly funded or resource constrained institutions librarians have to make hard choices about what they can cancel just to pay for the more expensive journals. Why should publishers get all of this money?

They should not, but that's not to say out of all the things wrong with academia that it's a real chokepoint for research. It's just one small part of a system which throws away millions every year.

I will say this. I am currently a student working in a project and I cannot afford any kind of subscription and my institution does not subscribe to the journals I need for reference. Without Scihub my project is doomed. I find this a real bottleneck for me.
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