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Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

nytimes.com

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Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#81

Post by RexetBlell »

lettergram wrote: post #69
mathieuuu wrote: post #38

I am amazed that in 2017, there is still people qualifying Bitcoin or Ethereum of ponzi schemes. Crypto currencies have a lot of problems (technical, economical, philosophical, ICO are insanes) but saying they are ponzi schemes is plain wrong. And it just takes 5 minutes of reading on Ponzi Schemes signs and basic knowledges of how those currencies work to understand why.

To be fair, Ethereum looks like a scheme of some kind (not Ponzi necessarily). The vast majority of the ether is controlled by a single company, which is literally just selling it for money. ... I get the other advantages to Ethereum, but it's not Bitcoin where there is actually a distributed number of people managing it.

What makes you think that the majority of ETH is controlled by a single company? What company is this? Do you have a source for this?

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#82

Post by atomical »

pmorici wrote: post #51
notadoc wrote: post #10

Does anyone think these cryptocoins will hold value during, in, and through the next recession?

If you go to https://coinmarketcap.com/ you will see they have info on over 600 individual crypto currencies. 99% of them are going to be worthless long term. Best case scenario a handful of them survive. I'd be extremely skeptical of any coin that distributes coins via an ICO or "pre-sale" instead of via competitive mining like Bitcoin.

Mining is a waste of energy. An ICO makes sense if they 1) have a product that benefits from a blockchain, 2) have a great team and a demo of their product.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#83

Post by sammyo »

mathieuuu wrote: post #38

I am amazed that in 2017, there is still people qualifying Bitcoin or Ethereum of ponzi schemes. Crypto currencies have a lot of problems (technical, economical, philosophical, ICO are insanes) but saying they are ponzi schemes is plain wrong. And it just takes 5 minutes of reading on Ponzi Schemes signs and basic knowledges of how those currencies work to understand why.

In many cases crying "ponzi" is likely an exclamation of "something wrong here" which your comment gives several examples. But cash, check and other instruments all have something wrong.

I'll suggest that the difference isn't that people know the details of how for example checks clear, few non-experts learn all the details, BUT virtually everyone knows where to go if there is a problem (bank branch). Most non-experts at this point in crypto currency would have no idea where to even go to investigate a problem.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#84

Post by ruytlm »

detaro wrote: post #77
feelix wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily do it in an hour or two by copying and pasting some code off the ethereum site. They encourage it. I like to think of ethereum as a ponzi scheme which spawns ponzi schemes (some of which themselves are intending to be a new platform for generating currencies...) https://www.ethereum.org/token

Not every questionable, bad or even fraudulent financial construct is a Ponzi scheme. Unless a coin has a clear promise of payout that the people organizing it would have to satisfy, it can't be a Ponzi scheme.

I suspect they're not using Ponzi scheme literally, more as a shorthand for the kind of scheme that promises plenty, but doesn't actually do anything.

See e.g: http://www.nytimes.com/1990/02/25/books/nothing-but-zzzz-bes...

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#85

Post by ruytlm »

mschuster91 wrote: post #48
taberiand wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if money laundering it legitimate to you...

Money laundering, in my opinion, is not only legitimate, but neccessary , given that e.g. European banking transactions end up via SWIFT or implants at the NSA headwuarters. In addition many governments try to move citizens to "electronic payment" (ranging from online banking to NFC credit cards). The reason is once again tracking, and as could be seen during the financial crisis it's easy to just confiscate money wh…

On the flip side, your piles of cash are only valuable at the moment. Print enough new money, and your cash is worthless, at which point its value has been taken from you without any interaction with you.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#86

Post by jamespitts »

afeezaziz wrote: post #68
jamespitts wrote: post #45

I would like to make an appeal to the YC community: please reach out and help guide those involved in this rapidly advancing phenomenon. There is a huge amount of instantly-deployable capital in Ethereum and Bitcoin, held by individuals now seeking ways to put it to work. Many technologists will naturally make use of this energy, but so will BS artists and people under the influence of hubris. I am making this appeal…

I agree with this sentiment. The sentiment on HN is that ICO promoters/startups are all scammer. My company, Pipeline Network is going to launch our ICO soon. We would be more than happy to get some guide/mentorship from the YC community.

I hope that instead of slinging mud at ICOs, the YC community reaches out to firms like yours.

Calling them all scams will not stop the next ICO from getting bigger. Note to blockchain-denialists: there are 10s of billions of capital, a deep enough pool for thousands of ICOs.

Slinging mud will also not help make ICOs any safer, nor protect financial systems outside of blockchains from collateral damage should firms fail.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#87

Post by agrajag »

RexetBlell wrote: post #76
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you go hide a few million bucks in cash in the middle of a desert, they can't take it either. The hard part has always been getting it out and not getting caught. Nothing is truly yours.

That could work, but cryptocurrencies are more convenient. You could transfer your coins anywhere in the world much easier. For example, you could donate your coins Wikileaks undetected, but it's much harder to do that with cash buried in the desert. It's also possible that the government may declare some bills invalid (what happened in India with larger bills). Also, government could inflate away your wealth by prin…

While cryptocurrencies have been great (so far) for speculation, give how quickly their worth changes they make a pretty poor store of wealth. I'd prefer my cash to be worth in 1 year roughly the same as it's worth today.

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#88

Post by skybrian »

thedrake wrote: post #55

Wait until amazon offers its own coin...that is when the mainstream will happen and if these much less know are able to pull this valuation the legitimacy and hype will many x when amazon does it. They have already tested the waters with https://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?docId=1001166401

What do you expect to happen? What advantage could a different coin give them over the one they already have? (Or Amazon gift cards, for that matter.)

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#89

Post by [deleted] »

jamespitts wrote: post #45

I would like to make an appeal to the YC community: please reach out and help guide those involved in this rapidly advancing phenomenon. There is a huge amount of instantly-deployable capital in Ethereum and Bitcoin, held by individuals now seeking ways to put it to work. Many technologists will naturally make use of this energy, but so will BS artists and people under the influence of hubris. I am making this appeal…

[deleted]

Re: Easiest Path to Riches on the Web? An Initial Coin Offering

#90

Post by ruytlm »

badminton1 wrote: post #2

Except that soon, the proliferation of cryptocurrencies will reduce the value of such ICOs.

Agreed; I'm yet to see any serious discussion of how fragmentation to various coins isn't going to cause headaches.

It's like if we were to print different banknotes for different services; suddenly we have blue Advertising Dollars, red Server Time dollars, yellow Financial Transaction dollars, and none can be used for anything else.

To me this looks like an arbitrary level of complication, the only true winner from which is whoever runs the exchanges.

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