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The secret to a long and healthy life? Eat less

bbc.com

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Re: The secret to a long and healthy life? Eat less

#121

Post by taneq »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #42

A few thoughts. It seems that "calorie restriction" is a misleading term. If these funds are correct, CR should be considered the norm/ideal. That means the majority, currently, over-consume. That aside. I wonder if it's also related to modern food, and the production there of. If inflammation is the root of most disease, and CR, I presume, reduces inflammation, then what is it about our foods that trigger so much in…

> If inflammation is the root of most disease

Reminds me of a quote in one of Heinlein's books, that all forms of death could ultimately be described as heart failure.

Re: The secret to a long and healthy life? Eat less

#122

Post by yourapostasy »

Cyph0n wrote: post #102
jpatokal wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ramadan is popularly associated with gaining weight, because people tend to binge before dawn and after sunset and are more sedentary than usual. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/2012/07/cairo-the-...

Middle Eastern cuisine doesn't help either. Most of our food is high in carbs and fats, and we eat a ton of bread!

There are some assertions that the wheat-based carbs we eat today are deficient in something (allegations vary depending upon who you speak with) that is missing from modern wheat grains and especially flours. It would be interesting to find a micro-culture or community that sources and exclusively uses freshly-stone-ground (not roller milled), whole, heirloom grain varieties for its flour, and compare the incidence of metabolic diseases with the general population.

That means a population that only uses a flour that is ground locally, then immediately used within 12-48 hours after grinding. The mill grinds the entire wheat grain, under cold temperatures, sourced from older strains of grain (e.g., einkorn or emmer), without separating and then adding back in bran, etc. Before milling, the grains are held in cold or even freezing, dry, dark storage.

If such a population can be found and studied, it could support or refute these assertions that modern hybrid grain strains and modern processes for even "whole wheat" flours is causing deficiencies in our diet that are contributing to various metabolic disorders.

Whole wheat is a poorly-regulated term [1]. Baking with whole, heirloom wheat might benefit from deep learning algos, automation, and appropriate sensor tech, considering how finicky the variables are [2]. If we can solve that, then we might be able to deliver industrial-scale baked goods with all the asserted benefits, without the high prices of artisan production. There are a lot of claims surrounding the adverse effects of industrialized grain and its affiliated production [3] [4], but I don't know of anyone coming at the other end, showing populations that eat heirloom grains that are freshly-processed differ from the general population in significant ways. I'm curious if an analogous condition exists for rice.

[1] https://ww2.kqed.org/bayareabites/2013/08/16/the-whole-grain...

[2] http://www.thekitchn.com/chad-robertsons-5-essentials-for-wo...

[3] https://paleoleap.com/what-is-wrong-with-grains/

[4] https://authoritynutrition.com/modern-wheat-health-nightmare...

Re: The secret to a long and healthy life? Eat less

#123

Post by taneq »

pharrlax wrote: post #82
louprado wrote: post #12

My father has had a low calorie diet all of his life. At 78, he is in perfect physical and mental condition. His doctor had only one concern; he is slowly losing weight each year and needs to reverse that. The doctor wanted to prescribe an appetite enhancing drug but my father explained he can not simply gain weight by eating more. It's as if his digestive system is already at a maximum threshold. I wonder if habitua…

>The doctor wanted to prescribe an appetite enhancing drug but my father explained he can not simply gain weight by eating more. It's as if his digestive system is already at a maximum threshold. It's more likely that his weight set point has been lowered, and now his hormonal hunger indicators are defending that set point. He needs to power through it and eat more, even though it's going to feel like he's uncomforta…

Note that he doesn't need to eat much more. A few hundred kilojoules a day will do the trick over time - he could reverse such a slow trend by something as small as switching from low fat to full cream milk, or having a couple of Tim Tams with his morning coffee.

Re: The secret to a long and healthy life? Eat less

#124

Post by hanoz »

listentojohan wrote: post #78
cyrusshepard wrote: post #37

Good overview of the benefits of calorie restriction, but doesn't touch on two of the most important schools of thought of the past couple years. 1. Calorie restriction is almost impossible for most humans to follow long term 2. Many of the same benefits of calorie restriction may be achievable through intermittent fasting, which is much easier for people to follow. I've been experimenting with a daily 16 hour fast (…

Have thought about the fasting as well, but isn't it basically the same as skipping breakfast?

Fasting is by definition skipping break fast.

Re: The secret to a long and healthy life? Eat less

#125

Post by icantdrive55 »

mcculley wrote: post #79
listentojohan wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have thought about the fasting as well, but isn't it basically the same as skipping breakfast?

There are many schemes people use. I find skipping both breakfast and lunch works well for me.

I have found only eating when hungry works for me, at least so far.

I look at the way I have lived my life, and honestly, only think I'm still around is due to not eating much.

I hate breakfast, and usually skip lunch because it makes me tired.

(I've only heard one doctor admit to bad eating habits like myself, and his name is Dr. Dean Edell. I used to listen to his show daily, and just figured he was a sensable eater. He then said, 'I basically eat at night when I get home. I do try to include some friuts/vegatables in my meals. I really miss his show.).

Re: The secret to a long and healthy life? Eat less

#126

Post by Cyph0n »

Cyph0n wrote: post #100
derefr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there longitudinal studies of comparative Muslim-population health outcomes for people who follow this precept vs. people who don't?

That's a good question actually. I'll try to do some digging. If I find anything, I will update this comment.

I found nothing unfortunately. Studies in both languages seem to be focused on Ramadan rather than long term intermittent fasting.

Re: The secret to a long and healthy life? Eat less

#127

Post by dirkg »

It is pretty ironic and sad that following a healthy diet, including CR, is much harder in Western nations and esp in the US.

- Processed food costs less than fresh food. - Multiple generations of people have been conditioned to eat processed and junk food. - People believe in the myth that 'cooking takes too long' - People are lazy and don't want to spend any time on cooking/food even when living a life of luxury compared to the rest of the world.

All of which is the opposite of most developing countries. US and UK are very close in this respect. Even many European countries value shopping for and eating fresh food much more.

CR, and eating in general should be about buying nutrient dense but low caloric foods - which is a mostly plant based diet of fresh food. The exact kind of food which is artificially expensive and considered a 'fad'.

Re: The secret to a long and healthy life? Eat less

#128

Post by dpark »

discreteevent wrote: post #109
dpark wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have any source of proof of any of this? Of course not. There's never been any significant evidence of health benefits from breakfast.

Firstly, you weren't asked the question. Secondly, you don't answer it. Proof was asked for yet you confidently come in with "Of course not" and no evidence or proof, for or against.

This is a public discussion forum. You can criticize my response. You cannot criticize me for responding. I certainly didn't ask for you to respond to me, and yet you did, which is perfectly appropriate.

Re: The secret to a long and healthy life? Eat less

#129

Post by jm2721 »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #95
JamesBarney wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CR reduces inflammation through the mTor pathway. And a lot(if not all) of the benefits of CR are seen with protein restriction or intermittent fasting(which both don't modify total caloric intake) because they both act on the same receptor. So CR isn't about eating too much food (though many of us are) it's about certain biological pathways that get activated during famine that prioritize longevity over other things…

Yes. But isn't it odd that our diets cause information in the first place. In an evolutionary way, that feels odd. So, then I have to wonder, is this further incrimination of the modern diet? And lifestyle? That is, is CR simple a proxy / correlation for putting less (modern) shit in your body?

So, for your first question, no, we didn't evolve for the food we need to survive to cause inflammation. In the past, ancient humans had no diabetes or cancer, and ate mostly protein, fats (saturated and monounsaturated), high fiber vegetables, and roughly a 1:1 ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids. So it seems more likely that our relatively recent addition of sugar, vegetable oils and highly refined carbohydrates (lacking any fiber content) has something to do with that.

I think your second question is on the money. CR seems like a red herring in this case, because it's likely that those who eat less will also eat less processed foods, less sugars, and more fibrous vegetables or filling fats that would help them actually keep their calorie intake low while still feeling satiated. In the study with the Rhesus monkeys, it said that the ones that weren't on calorie restriction were diabetic or pre-diabetic. Monkeys in the wild don't really get diabetes, in the same way that our human ancestors never got diabetes, so what were they feeding these monkeys? I looked at some of the source studies backing this bbc article. The report from the Nature magazine(https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14063) actually says that the University of Wisconsin study 'contained a significantly higher amount of sucrose compared to the NIA diet' (https://www.nia.nih.gov/newsroom/announcements/2017/01/calor...) and that the other study, the one with a diet of varied protein sources, actually did not see any health benefits in the CR monkeys. I wonder, if you fed the UW monkeys a diet low in sucrose and other easily digestible carbohydrates in order to keep their blood glucose and inflammation extremely low, would there be a big difference in the health of the CR monkeys and the others? If the NIA study is any indication, probably not.

Re: The secret to a long and healthy life? Eat less

#130

Post by klipt »

Swizec wrote: post #87
shady-lady wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> small meals every 3 hours I can't imagine what food combinations would constitute a small meal that would be eaten 5/6 times a day. Sample menu for a full day?

Here is a relatively typical day https://imgur.com/a/WQeAr I tend to increase my intake right before and after gym sessions. That's why 2nd lunch and Dinner are bigger than the others. And on this particular day I felt like having candy after dinner because I was low on carbs, so midnight meal was slightly smaller than usual.

No green vegetables? Spinach, broccoli, peas...?
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