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Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

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Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#151

Post by Koromix »

philipkglass wrote: post #142
Koromix wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

27% is better, though from a quick look it applies only to the US, and in Europe it looks closer to 15%. I need to take time tomorrow to find good sources on this. I'm not convinced by carbon storage, though I don't know enough about it to be sure. It is my understanding that it is either energy-hungry (so useless because we don't and likely won't have enough carbon-neutral energy surplus) or pretty slow (also useles…

Germany has the most PV installed of any European country. Utility scale PV facilities in Germany may reach only 10% capacity factor. But most of the world's present and future electricity demand centers are significantly closer to the equator than Germany is. "Carbon storage" would normally refer to physically sequestering purified carbon dioxide or other carbon bearing compounds. I agree that storage of that type i…

That's interesting, thanks for the information, I'll probably spend a good portion of tomorrow reading up on this. Geoengineering is scary.

Honestly, I am extremely pessimistic about mankind's ability to work on such a scale. Too many people seem to assume global warming is still a far-off problem, and that for some reason humanity is destined to "progress" forever, even though we know of many civilizations that have collapsed before ours.

I'd just like more people to grasp the dire reality of the situation, and stop assuming that somehow technology and/or progress will save us no matter what.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#152

Post by bigiain »

slang800 wrote: post #132
olegkikin wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also Europe is trying to reduce its dependence on the russian natural gas, so they are building LNG terminals all over. LNG tankers are freaking scary though, they are like mini-nukes, approaching 1 megaton equivalent.

"Mini-nuke" isn't a very accurate comparison. In the event of a leak, the liquid fuel would need to flow out of the tank and turn into vapor before it could catch fire and burn. As a liquid or highly concentrated vapor it's not flammable. It needs to mix with air first. The result would be a cloud of gas that burns violently for several minutes, depending upon wind and the speed of the leak. Not the instantaneous, cr…

That's assuming an accidental leak. I wonder what the risks of "bad guys" with, say, shoulder fired rockets taking the top of the tanks off look like?

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#153

Post by dilemma »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #135
sremani wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bottleneck is the grid. The Grid has to match the production and demand, and at times that is why CA gives away electricity to AZ and pay for AZ for consuming its electricity. In turn, AZ turns off some of its production. A tanker with LNG is much more flexible and denser form of energy than photons to electrons.. Once electrons out they need to be consumed asap!

> The bottleneck is the grid. The Grid has to match the production and demand, and at times that is why CA gives away electricity to AZ and pay for AZ for consuming its electricity. In turn, AZ turns off some of its production. This is more likely due to subsidies. The government wants more solar so it pays the producer to make it. They can sell it for any price down to the negative of that subsidy (i.e. pass on 99%…

Input and output need to be matched regardless of any subsidies that may exist.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#154

Post by ableton »

jostmey wrote: post #42

I live in Dallas Texas and buy renewable (wind or solar) electricity from the grid. It cost only marginally more

I live in Texas too and buy Breeze energy which is 100% wind energy. It is also the cheapest electricity provider I have found for my location.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#155

Post by epistasis »

adventured wrote: post #148
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

It appears we're at the inflection point where even natural gas (in addition to coal) is getting pushed out of the generation mix. Good! About time. This may require paying natural gas generators for their ability to quickly throttle to back renewables, but only as a temporary measure until utility scale batteries fall in cost.

Coal is a third of the US energy mix. It'll take decades to bring that to zero at present energy consumption using both NG and renewables. NG will continue to expand by necessity. We're about to switch over to electric vehicles, which will add a huge amount of new electricity demand to the grid. There's no scenario where we support that shift in the next ~30 years on renewables alone. More likely, circa 2050, we're g…

It will take a lot less if the fuel cost differential between NG and coal looks permanent. Coal turbines will be converted to NG or shut down entirely.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#156

Post by cylinder »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

It appears we're at the inflection point where even natural gas (in addition to coal) is getting pushed out of the generation mix. Good! About time. This may require paying natural gas generators for their ability to quickly throttle to back renewables, but only as a temporary measure until utility scale batteries fall in cost.

Wouldn't that subsidy delay the cost drop in batteries? Instead those expenditures can go towards batteries, which will be costly, but will hasten the price drops and technological development of batteries.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#157

Post by PhasmaFelis »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #18
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You cannot compete against an energy source with no fuel cost Of course you can. The technology to turn photons into useful energy is heavy, complex and reliant on rare elements. In any case, one could flip the analogy by branding coal as photons freely stockpiled by dead trees and algae.

When you install solar panels or wind turbines, you've prepaid for whatever power they'll produce for the next 30+ years. When you generate using a fuel, your margins are dictated by power market spot prices (prices occasionally go negative; do you continue to generate and pay for someone to take your power while you're also paying someone for a fuel? In some scenarios, you must), depreciation, and your fuel costs/co…

> prices occasionally go negative

How's that happen?

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#158

Post by krallja »

bb88 wrote: post #131
PeterisP wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Natural gas energy can be transported much more easily than solar or wind." makes me think - is it really cheaper to build and maintain a natural gas pipeline than a large high-voltage line capable of transmitting as much power?

That question actually has an answer. I suspect they may be right in that an underground pipe is better than high voltage wires being carried over land. But I've long thought that underground high voltage power transmission built underneath interstates would fare much better than overhead poles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undergrounding has a comparison of the advantages and disadvantages.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#159

Post by zeep »

jostmey wrote: post #45
davidf18 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming this is a joke since there aren't separate power lines for renewable energy. :-)

No it is not. As a consumer in Dallas we get to choose which power company we want to buy from. Basically, we have to buy our share of electricity that is used from the grid.

Do they do the same for internet providers?

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#160

Post by slang800 »

jacquesm wrote: post #88
saryant wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural gas energy can be transported much more easily than solar or wind. As more export capacity comes online in the US I would expect natural gas projects in the US to continue apace even if domestic consumption stays flat or declines.

> Natural gas energy can be transported much more easily than solar or wind. Yes, but not easier than it is to transport electrons. And solar and wind energy can be converted into electrons and then transported across vast distances using existing infrastructure.

Transporting electrons is extremely difficult. Even with HVDC lines (usually more efficient than AC lines over long distances) you get around 3.5% loss per 1000km. If you tried to run a submarine cable the distance that LNG tankers travel, you'd end up losing a quarter to a half of your power just during transmission. Not to mention the cost of actually building & maintaining that infrastructure.
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