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The slow death of the electric guitar

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261–270 of 343 posts

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One can't just look at revenue, debt and Moody's rating of guitar makers and dealers and proclaim the guitar, the most popular instrument today by a huge margin, is dying. The "most popular instrument today" is misleading, considering modern R&B, Hip Hop (and to a lesser degree) EDM dominate everything charts and sales wise, and they use mostly computer DAWs and plugins, something that wont register in "instrument…

Can't compare a DAW to an instrument though. Lots of guitar players use DAWs as well, so that's not really comparable. It's a whole different segment in fact. To correctly account for "computer-only musicians" we would have to also eliminate electronic artists that have a primary instrument such as keyboards or drums/percussion. And in any case, computer-based instruments do register sales and have their place in mos…

>(Can't compare a DAW to an instrument though. Lots of guitar players use DAWs as well, so that's not really comparable.*

Yes, but they use it as a recording/mixing device, whereas for electronic musicians they use it for music generation.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#262
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Maybe these old people in the article (I'm 37 so I'm one of them as well, I guess) are the problem, and when younger people that don't revere the word "vintage" so much can usher in the era of the truly modern guitar that Ned Steinberger has shown us glimpses of? One can only hope. It's already happening. A huge proportion of young guitarists are playing metal, which is a hugely progressive scene in terms of technol…

Sure. Headless designs is going in the right direction IMO, but other than that, don't fool yourself, the Strandberg and Kiesel guitars etc. are still very traditional designs: Wooden body, wooden neck, wooden fretboard, and in the case of Strandberg, Ibanez AANJ-style neck joint and silver/nickel frets (Carvin/Kiesel have neck-through and SS frets as options, or at least used to have). Most, if not all parts, you ca…

Strandberg use stainless frets and carbon neck reinforcement on everything but the entry-level Classic model. Stainless frets are a $40 option on any Kiesel and carbon reinforcement is standard on any of their extended-range guitars. The Strandberg headpiece and bridge is made in-house; Kiesel use custom headless hardware designed in collaboration with Hipshot. Strandberg use fanned frets throughout their range and Kiesel offer it as an option on most of their solid-body guitars.

There are merits to both the neck-through construction used on the Kiesel Vader and the bolt-on joint used by Strandberg. Through-necks are arguably more stable, but bolt-ons are far easier to maintain and repair.

The Strandberg neck profile is anything but conventional:

https://strandbergguitars.com/strandberg-endurneck/

There's nothing terribly wrong with wood construction. It's aesthetically pleasing, relatively economical and more than strong, stiff and stable enough when used appropriately.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#263
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Diplo and TSwift are as legit as SRV and Dylan. Rock on. First, if they are, then that's part of the focus of the article. That guitar and guitar rock is waning -- and surely Diplo and TSwift are not bringing it back. Second, no Diplo and TSwift are not as legit as SRV and Dylan. Not because they are different genres, but because they are inferior artistically (regardless of genre). They might be equally entertaini…

how does it feel up on that high horse? there are no absolutes in music (as an art form) so you really can't say that Diplo is less important than Dylan until long after both are dead. even then, Diplo is influencing a ton of kids and will have impact that way for decades to come so where do you draw the line? Dylan himself probably never thought he'd be as important a musician as his heroes - Elvis, Little Richard,…

>how does it feel up on that high horse?

It feels great. It's called culture, and being aware of it, not a blind consumer of what tastes good (McDonalds tastes good too).

>there are no absolutes in music (as an art form)

No, but human culture has, and always had, a way to prfioritize what's important and what's not besides mere consumption or influence (crap has also influenced a lot of imitators).

>Dylan himself probably never thought he'd be as important a musician as his heroes - Elvis, Little Richard, etc. but now they are all in the same conversation.

That's irrelevant though, because it's not the artist that determines their own worth but their work, its quality, and its cultural impact.

>music is fun. the expected almost never happens.

Except with TSwift, Diplo and co songs. Where it almost always happens.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Diplo and TSwift are as legit as SRV and Dylan. Rock on. First, if they are, then that's part of the focus of the article. That guitar and guitar rock is waning -- and surely Diplo and TSwift are not bringing it back. Second, no Diplo and TSwift are not as legit as SRV and Dylan. Not because they are different genres, but because they are inferior artistically (regardless of genre). They might be equally entertaini…

If you want to argue that Taylor Swift is technically inferior then that's fine, but tens of millions of young women disagree with assertions of her "artistic inferiority", and I'd be curious to know why your opinion matters more than theirs.

>and I'd be curious to know why your opinion matters more than theirs

Because populism doesn't say much. One can find tens of millions supporting any kind of trash in all areas of public life (wanna talk about politics for example?).

Informed opinions matter more than uninformed ones, and we're beyond the point that the merit of Taylor Swift vs Dylan (or sugary constructed commercial pop for quick consumption and singing songwriting that defined a generation and then some and made it to the Nobel) is seriously argued.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Luca Stricagnoli, who tends to play guitar, bass, and drums all at once, with just the guitar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJiok_3B-JA Or with some extra instruments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxHGyqobsbI Or Mike Dawes, same deal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYksCAhjthk Most of the people Candyrat Records sign, really.

there's a long lineage of great fingerstyle guitarists in that style, arguably all generated from Tuck Andress of Tuck and Patty. Tommy Emmanuel is another one, and one of the best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPkQn5nDTZs

Also check out Andy McKee if you're into this type of thing https://youtu.be/Ddn4MGaS3N4

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally bought an upright after years of playing bass guitar. Couldn't be happier but transport is a pain. Still play the bass guitar, though, I don't think anything is going obsolete, half of the electric guitars people bought in it's golden years were just collecting dust anyway.

I play upright (I'm actually getting ready to go my gig for today). I dunno if it helps, but when I started I did not know I could put it in the front seat of most cars with the seat laid back. That's made transport relatively easy ( though it is a very bulky instrument).

A guy I know squeezes his homemade mando-bass (still a large instrument) into a Karman Ghia. Only he knows the magic twists and turns to get it in and out.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#267
The thing about the "guitar hero" phenomenon of the 1980's. Let me relay a perspective from someone who plays guitar and who was there:

It was a phenomenon fueled purely by MTV and the record companies. And, nothing is different from today in the following regard: all the heroes were current musicians. The teens I was surrounded with were largely ignorant of even the immediately previous generation of rock and roll.

Rock listening teenagers in the 80's weren't listening to Clapton. Most wouldn't have known who the heck is Ritchie Blackmore of Deep Purple or what have you; that had been a hundred years ago (i.e. some ten).

Most of the guitar heroes were only some 5 to 15 years older than the teenaged worshippers. They constantly changed. One year you'd go to music stores, and every kid walking in there would pick up a guitar and be doing some Van Halen thing. A few years later, every kid wanted to be Slash from Guns and Roses. Later still, Metallica made a bit of a comeback and you'd hear nothing but Enter Sandman covers.

Another thing to know is that there was a lot of criticism of the whole phenomenon while it was happening, even from the musicians themselves.

The following is an absolute must read to anyone interested in this topic. A 1987 Guitar Player magazine interview with Frank Zappa, titled "The 80's Guitar Clone".

http://www.afka.net/Articles/1987-01_Guitar_Player.htm

I remember this well, because I read it in print when it came out and it made an impression. I respected Zappa. I was one of the fairly rare teens of the generation who actually knew who Zappa is. My dad got me into Zappa. Because of Zappa, I knew who Stevie Vai was before he was a houshold name among guitar players.

Quotes:

Well, the one thing that seems to be more prevalent today is imitation. I think that the amount of copycat players in the marketplace today is significantly higher than it's ever been before. You see very few truly original guitarists and a whole bunch of people who wish they were Eddie Van Halen.

Q: [In the same way that Olympic records are always being broken, guitar playing seems to be getting faster and faster.]

Not only is it getting faster, but the solos themselves are becoming gymnastic routines – basically 8- and maybe 16-bar gymnastic routines that are stuck in the middle of songs about fairly common topics. The whole concept of extended improvisations that are compositions in progress is something that is pretty much gone from the pop music scene. That's one of the major losses for the '80s, I think. That's what I was addressing in the old article, talking about the process by which the kid sitting at home listens to a tape, and although he couldn't read it off the piece of paper, learns it by rote like a parrot, and winds up playing faster and faster and faster. I think that's really what's taking place.

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#268
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how does it feel up on that high horse? there are no absolutes in music (as an art form) so you really can't say that Diplo is less important than Dylan until long after both are dead. even then, Diplo is influencing a ton of kids and will have impact that way for decades to come so where do you draw the line? Dylan himself probably never thought he'd be as important a musician as his heroes - Elvis, Little Richard,…

> how does it feel up on that high horse? It feels great. It's called culture, and being aware of it, not a blind consumer of what tastes good (McDonalds tastes good too). > there are no absolutes in music (as an art form) No, but human culture has, and always had, a way to prfioritize what's important and what's not besides mere consumption or influence (crap has also influenced a lot of imitators). > Dylan himself…

[deleted]

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#269

I play an "obsolete" instrument, the double bass. And I play jazz. So my gut reaction is: Welcome to the club. Electric guitar (and electric bass) enjoyed their day in the sun, and it was well deserved. When the Fender guitar came on the scene, a dance band required as many as 19 musicians, all playing instruments that took years of training just to even make a decent sound, much less to play at a performance level.…

Finally bought an upright after years of playing bass guitar. Couldn't be happier but transport is a pain. Still play the bass guitar, though, I don't think anything is going obsolete, half of the electric guitars people bought in it's golden years were just collecting dust anyway.

You might enjoy this lightweight upright electric bass. I've performed with the creator of this bass for the past 7 years and it always sounds great and can be carried around very conveniently. http://www.kyddbass.com/models.htm

Re: The slow death of the electric guitar

#270
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think he meant "better because you did it the hardway" but "better because you spent time on the finer details of the phrasing" That said, it seems you had a lot on your chest and it feels good to get it off

What I meant is that learning songs by ear makes you a better musician because you are effectively doing ear training at the same time. Ear training is an important part of growing musically that many people over look because it is tedious, but it's what allows experts to play what they hear in their head when improvising. If you just play what's written out on a page, you won't benefit as much in this regard.

I agree that ear-training is important. I just don't believe struggling through songs while listening to slowed down records is the most effective way to do it.

We don't tell beginning programmers, "Go read the Linux kernel, it's the best way to learn." And, we shouldn't tell beginning musicians, "Go listen to an incredibly complex work recorded on 24+ tracks, with dozens of overdubs, and pitch-correction, and compression, performed by professional musicians with years of experience, and copy them."

I struggled when learning stuff as a kid, for years. I did it, but it wasn't productive practice. If I'd had competent ear-training, interval training, and sight-singing instruction at the beginning of my musical life, I would have found learning from records by ear much easier and much more productive within a year.

Kids today have access to those resources, even if they aren't lucky enough to go to a school for music. Will they do it? I dunno. I did tedious stuff even when more fun stuff was available; I had video games, friends in the neighborhood, a bike and skateboard to ride, etc., but I banged away at my guitar, making slow progress.

Making it less tedious, by making it more productive, seems like it's more likely to work out for more aspiring musicians. Learning by ear, when you don't have a framework of musical knowledge to hang it on, is among the most tedious things I can remember from learning to play guitar...and, it wasn't nearly as productive as it could have been, in terms of learning.

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