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Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

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Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#71

Post by Spooky23 »

davidf18 wrote: post #10

I wonder what the economics would be without the federal tax incentives for wind and solar. Does anyone know? EDIT: Someone above provided a link that provides the figure I was looking for: "Between 2010 and 2016, subsidies for solar were between 10¢ and 88¢ per kWh and subsidies for wind were between 1.3¢ and 5.7¢ per kWh. Subsidies for coal, natural gas and nuclear are all between 0.05¢ and 0.2¢ per kWh over all ye…

It's a hard to say, but in your case every dollar of solar subsidy probably reduces ratepayer cost by $1.50 or more.

Adding marginal capacity to the NYC grid costs a fortune to ratepayers, as siting a plant will take a decade and cost billions, and transmission capacity is already constrained -- nearly limitless hydropower is available from Quebec, but it requires massive infrastructure investment to move!

That's why New York subsidizes solar and heavily subsidizes peak load reduction.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#72

Post by [deleted] »

fencepost wrote: post #29

Very amusing that the article ends with “It’s pretty slim pickings right now,” Ferguson said. “God is not manufacturing more coastal property.” Part of the concern for renewable energy folks is that you could argue that God is arranging for more coastal property, though not perhaps in ways useful to wind farmers on the Texas coast.

[deleted]

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#73

Post by [deleted] »

hueving wrote: post #66
jostmey wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trying to tell me that they won't build more windmills if that's what people are paying for?

Are you suggesting the transmission company would refuse the electricity from the wind mills if enough people aren't paying for the clean option? I'm curious how this works. What happens if you pay for clean and the wind isn't blowing at night? What happens if everyone paying for clean turns on their appliances and the demand outstrips the clean supply? I highly doubt there are blackouts in these occasions so it seem…

[deleted]

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#74

Post by kbaker »

hueving wrote: post #66
jostmey wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trying to tell me that they won't build more windmills if that's what people are paying for?

Are you suggesting the transmission company would refuse the electricity from the wind mills if enough people aren't paying for the clean option? I'm curious how this works. What happens if you pay for clean and the wind isn't blowing at night? What happens if everyone paying for clean turns on their appliances and the demand outstrips the clean supply? I highly doubt there are blackouts in these occasions so it seem…

All the electricity produced gets mixed in.

To incentivize renewable energy production, "Renewable Energy Credits" are used for the bookkeeping of what kinds of energy is being generated, and are created when energy is produced by a renewable provider (handwaving a bit here...)

Consumers and businesses can have their electric plan provider purchase these credits per their usage to make sure they are getting the correct portion that actually comes from a renewable source.

So the demand and pricing is adjustable determined by the pricing of the credits.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#75

Post by icebraining »

Koromix wrote: post #53
toomuchtodo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely off the mark. Enough energy from the sun hits the Earth in an hour or two to power humanity for a year. It's simply a matter of scaling up. Nuclear is already dead at current wind and solar generation costs.

Photovoltaic capacity is expected to be around 4674 GW in 2050 (currently around 150, I think) [1]. Let's be optimistic and say it'll actually be around 20000 GW, just for the fun of it, and let's ignore all of the variability problems that solar poses. Considering that PV's capacity factor is around 15%, that's around 26 PWh of annual (electric) energy production, around 50% of the electrical energy we use up in a y…

I don't get it, what's your argument? Yes, at the pace we're building them, PV is not sufficient. Guess what, the exact same fact is true of nuclear. All that establishes is that we must invest more, it doesn't say in what we should invest.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#76

Post by refurb »

exabrial wrote: post #48
refurb wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take a closer look at this. If you're surprised the GOP is allowing this, then something about your assumptions are wrong. Either you're incorrectly assuming the GOP would actively legislate against wind farms or something else is happening. What do you think is the mostly likely explanation?

There's a distinct possibility your world view is incorrect then if this surprises you. The big misunderstanding the blue has about the red is who pays for things. It's not the GOP hates renewables, they just want the private industry to pay for them, not the taxpayer. Let the cheapest energy source win! Wind and solar absolutely have a great chance at doing that. That doesn't make a good story though... It just stin…

You're right. It's much easier for people to say "they're wrong" rather than "they have a different approach".

The latter doesn't result in as many clicks.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#77

Post by seanmcdirmid »

_delirium wrote: post #54
saryant wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural gas energy can be transported much more easily than solar or wind. As more export capacity comes online in the US I would expect natural gas projects in the US to continue apace even if domestic consumption stays flat or declines.

Gas is easy to transport, but only really by pipeline. LNG is a lot more expensive and capital-intensive. And there is only one place with rising demand where it's easy to transport U.S. natural gas: Mexico. Pipeline gas exports to Mexico did nearly triple between 2011 and 2016 [1]. Exports to Canada over the same period fell, however. Anywhere besides Canada and Mexico requires liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminals,…

Investments in LNG are already sunk, however. Japan and China are already big importers.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#78

Post by maxerickson »

codecamper wrote: post #62
saryant wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural gas energy can be transported much more easily than solar or wind. As more export capacity comes online in the US I would expect natural gas projects in the US to continue apace even if domestic consumption stays flat or declines.

Put some solar panels on your roof, run wire to home. There, you have transported your power. Bigger issue is winter time energy, aka heating. That one will be hard with current tech (storing energy for once per year use), though solar is getting cheap enough you may be able to use use solar generated electricity to heat -- you would need overcapacity of panels in northern climates -- but that's probably cheaper than…

Investing in highly insulated buildings is the way to heat with solar.

Modestly more expensive up front, cheaper over the lifetime of the building.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#79

Post by mcv »

fencepost wrote: post #29

Very amusing that the article ends with “It’s pretty slim pickings right now,” Ferguson said. “God is not manufacturing more coastal property.” Part of the concern for renewable energy folks is that you could argue that God is arranging for more coastal property, though not perhaps in ways useful to wind farmers on the Texas coast.

It's going to be great for wind farmers on the Oklahoma coast, however.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#80

Post by davedx »

saryant wrote: post #3
toomuchtodo wrote: post #2

It appears we're at the inflection point where even natural gas (in addition to coal) is getting pushed out of the generation mix. Good! About time. This may require paying natural gas generators for their ability to quickly throttle to back renewables, but only as a temporary measure until utility scale batteries fall in cost.

Natural gas energy can be transported much more easily than solar or wind. As more export capacity comes online in the US I would expect natural gas projects in the US to continue apace even if domestic consumption stays flat or declines.

Tell that to Qatar. The UK is one sea blockade away from losing a huge chunk of electricity generation.
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