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Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

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Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#41

Post by aaronbrethorst »

supremesaboteur wrote: post #40
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick search on Google reveals that GOP legislators in at least Indiana and Wyoming are working to actively legislate against wind farms. So, it certainly has precedent. edit: and here's an article that explicitly talks about how GOP members are trying to undermine wind power generation in Texas. https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterdetwiler/2017/02/14/propos...

The link from that article explicitly states that it will not shut down the wind farm : http://www.dailyadvance.com/News/2017/01/25/Jones-Bill-won-t...

I used the word "undermine" for a reason. They're not prohibiting wind generation. They're making it more expensive.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#43

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

majewsky wrote: post #5
toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are multiple transmission line projects in progress in the US to drag wind energy to major load centers. Solar can be produced anywhere of course. Natgas exports may increase, but it appears everyone is getting off of fossil asap. You cannot compete against an energy source with no fuel cost.

> Solar can be produced anywhere of course. I take issue with "of course". It will be always be wildly more economic to produce solar power in places with a lot of sun. And without checking, my ballpark guess would be that you get at least 10 times more solar energy out of a panel in Texas than a panel in, say, Canada. Our eyes are just so good at adapting to different light levels that we don't notice the different…

It would also be pretty difficult to use solar in Murmansk, Russia, for about a quarter of the year (it's within the arctic circle, so the sun is below the horizon for most (or all near the solstice) of the day during the winter.

And it can actually be less efficient if there's too much sun, solar panel efficiency decreases with temperature. Solar thermal also depends on temperature differential, so if the environment around the plant is too hot the efficiency drops.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#45

Post by jostmey »

davidf18 wrote: post #44
jostmey wrote: post #42

I live in Dallas Texas and buy renewable (wind or solar) electricity from the grid. It cost only marginally more

I'm assuming this is a joke since there aren't separate power lines for renewable energy. :-)

No it is not. As a consumer in Dallas we get to choose which power company we want to buy from. Basically, we have to buy our share of electricity that is used from the grid.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#46

Post by iagovar »

davidf18 wrote: post #44
jostmey wrote: post #42

I live in Dallas Texas and buy renewable (wind or solar) electricity from the grid. It cost only marginally more

I'm assuming this is a joke since there aren't separate power lines for renewable energy. :-)

IDK in the US, but in Spain you can actually "buy" only renewable energy, by paying a company that only pays for renewable producers in the pool.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#47

Post by angstrom »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #27
TeMPOraL wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you've prepaid for whatever power they'll produce for the next 30+ years Assuming they don't degrade completely in those 30 years. Also, I still wonder what's their EROI if you count in their manufacturing, transport and installation costs?

Solar panels degrade about 0.7 percent a year based on historical data for the last two decades; after 20 years they're still generating at 80+% of total output. This doesn't take into account the ridiculous cost decline curve we're seeing in solar, and that'll be a fraction of the cost to replace degraded capacity decades from now. http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/51664.pdf EROI has been positive for quite some tim…

I like that you mentioned the cost to replace. This is something heavily ignored right now for the fossil fuels. The cost to find and develop new wells is so prohibitive due to either the risk or the technical challenges that securing finance to invest is not as easy as it was the past 50 years. It's becoming a Sisyphean task to replace and grow existing production.

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#48

Post by exabrial »

refurb wrote: post #22
sizzzzlerz wrote: post #6

It's surprising that this is allowed to happen by the Texas GOP lege. I would have expected them to either outlaw outright or severely hamper wind farms and other renewable energy business in favor of their big oil benefactors. The resulting screwing of the energy consumers is, as always, an extra benefit.

Let's take a closer look at this. If you're surprised the GOP is allowing this, then something about your assumptions are wrong. Either you're incorrectly assuming the GOP would actively legislate against wind farms or something else is happening. What do you think is the mostly likely explanation?

There's a distinct possibility your world view is incorrect then if this surprises you.

The big misunderstanding the blue has about the red is who pays for things. It's not the GOP hates renewables, they just want the private industry to pay for them, not the taxpayer. Let the cheapest energy source win! Wind and solar absolutely have a great chance at doing that.

That doesn't make a good story though... It just stinks that people won't look for common ground :/

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#49

Post by gozur88 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4
saryant wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural gas energy can be transported much more easily than solar or wind. As more export capacity comes online in the US I would expect natural gas projects in the US to continue apace even if domestic consumption stays flat or declines.

There are multiple transmission line projects in progress in the US to drag wind energy to major load centers. Solar can be produced anywhere of course. Natgas exports may increase, but it appears everyone is getting off of fossil asap. You cannot compete against an energy source with no fuel cost.

>There are multiple transmission line projects in progress in the US to drag wind energy to major load centers.

Sure, but not to Europe and Asia.

http://www.reuters.com/article/usa-asia-lng-idUSL1N1FE4BG

Re: Texas Is Too Windy and Sunny for Old Energy Companies to Make Money

#50

Post by davidf18 »

jostmey wrote: post #45
davidf18 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm assuming this is a joke since there aren't separate power lines for renewable energy. :-)

No it is not. As a consumer in Dallas we get to choose which power company we want to buy from. Basically, we have to buy our share of electricity that is used from the grid.

But in this case, you are simply throwing your money away since the green producers aren't going to produce more energy because you and other consumers are paying them to. They will produce the same amount regardless.

In that case, better to give the money to some charity that say, replaces incandescent bulbs with the newest LED lamps starting with your own house and office if you haven't already converted. Also, better to take mass transit than use the car.

BTW, our brilliant NY Govenor Cuomo is putting a lot more carbon-based fuel back on-line. Because nuclear is more expensive than gas powered generation, he is removing the Indian Point nuclear power plant from the grid. This plant generates 1/4 the electricity for NYC and adjacent Westchester County.

The population of NYC is 8.5 million, Westchester County is about 1 million. So removing the carbon-free power for about 2.5 million people.

All will be replaced with carbon-based fuel generation. So much for people like you trying to be responsible and green.

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