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Chiropractors are bullshit

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Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#41

Post by Tharkun »

I've never seen so many downvoted top level comments. Is the term "chiropractor" what's causing the problem in this discussion? Can anyone call themselves a chiropractor where the author of this article is based? It seems like it's a protected title in many European countries. In Norway & Denmark for instance the title can only be granted by studying medicine. Over there chiropractors can prescribe MRIs and some drugs.

It looks like some folks in this thread are talking about quacks who brute force your back into oblivion, whereas others are talking about physical therapy spinal manipulation. I'm assuming these are not the same thing?

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#42

Post by pjkundert »

obstinate wrote: post #27
pfarnsworth wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ya I take this back

> You only need anecdotes to prove that it's not bullshit. Oh dear. No. That's not true at all. Suppose I have back pain. Then I eat some dirt. Then I feel better. Then I start claiming that dirt ingestion cures back pain. Someone would be well within their rights to call that bullshit, despite my anecdote. Even if I could find a dozen people who had the same experience, it would still be bullshit.

Claim was made. Falsifying evidence was presented. QED.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#43

Post by virtualwhys »

While I've never realized Nirvana through my chiropractic experiences, they have been immensely helpful in the short-term.

For example, several years ago I spent the winter on the north shore of Oahu (Hawaii) surfing. The waves are often perfect and glassy, but pack a serious punch when you fall. I took a heavy wipeout, which left me as stiff necked as I've ever been. For a few days I could barely move my head from left to right. I needed to do something, so went to a chriropractor.

The chiropractor had seen the surfer's whiplash injury many times before; after some light warmup massage work to loosen up the muscles, a quick jerking of the head, and crack!!, done. All the tension gone in an instant. Walked out a new man, was back in the water the next day.

Less extreme, as a computer worker I often find myself in strange/unhealthy positions while consumed with solving yet another problem. This leaves my back not feeling all that great. So, 3 or 4 times a year I go to a chiropractor I know (in Montreal) and get an adjustment. While there's no permanent realignment, there is most definitely a temporary one, which feels great.

I'd say it depends on the chiropractor (YMMV), and not that the profession as a whole is a hoax.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#44

Post by ovatsug25 »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #28
pfarnsworth wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how everyone thinks they are an expert. I went to physiotherapy for over a year. I took medications for longer. Neither worked. I took a short course of chiro and the pain permanently went away.

No, you went to a bad physiotherapist. Most likely you should have gone to a Physio that actually gets stuck in and manipulates your facet joints and vertebrae to help get the muscles out of spasm and get the joints comfortable moving again. The reason people get relief from chiropractors is manipulating joints is shown to help free up joints and take muscles out of spasm. Physiotherapists practice evidence based med…

Physiotherapists are like programmers—there are good ones and there are bad ones. I've met better chiropractors than physiotherapists because they are actually passionate about solving the problem of pain. Because of this interest, the chiropractors become incredibly interested in the only real, long-term solution to back pain short of a broken bone: consistent, smart, exercise specific to the areas in which you experience pain along with a whole body prime. Their practice is the basis for spinal manipulation and a quick massage. The only real solution for you as a patient get off your back and exercise and find the smart people regardless of what it is they are trained in. Smartness beats education anyway.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#45

Post by lwlml »

N=1 situation: Found that drinking more water helped the joints of my back ease and reduced lower-back-pain.

After that, you need to do functional movements and lift-heavy-things, often. Not too heavy, but enough to prompt your body to improve its capabilities.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#46

Post by arkades »

closed wrote: post #17

This made me curious about its effectiveness for back pain, so I tried to find a meta-analysis. Turned up this on plos one. (note, I can't speak for the article's quality). > Moderate evidence suggests that chiropractic care for LBP appears to be equally effective as physical therapy. Limited evidence suggests the same conclusion when chiropractic care is compared to exercise therapy and medical care although no firm…

Standard of care for LBP is almost entirely ineffective. So... no surprises that chiropractic meets that standard.

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#47

Post by simonbarker87 »

ovatsug25 wrote: post #44
simonbarker87 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you went to a bad physiotherapist. Most likely you should have gone to a Physio that actually gets stuck in and manipulates your facet joints and vertebrae to help get the muscles out of spasm and get the joints comfortable moving again. The reason people get relief from chiropractors is manipulating joints is shown to help free up joints and take muscles out of spasm. Physiotherapists practice evidence based med…

Physiotherapists are like programmers—there are good ones and there are bad ones. I've met better chiropractors than physiotherapists because they are actually passionate about solving the problem of pain. Because of this interest, the chiropractors become incredibly interested in the only real, long-term solution to back pain short of a broken bone: consistent, smart, exercise specific to the areas in which you expe…

Agreed, exactly how I recovered from a herneated L5S1

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#48

Post by [deleted] »

Tharkun wrote: post #41

I've never seen so many downvoted top level comments. Is the term "chiropractor" what's causing the problem in this discussion? Can anyone call themselves a chiropractor where the author of this article is based? It seems like it's a protected title in many European countries. In Norway & Denmark for instance the title can only be granted by studying medicine. Over there chiropractors can prescribe MRIs and some drug…

[deleted]

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#49

Post by idanman »

enraged_camel wrote: post #30
abatilo wrote: post #9

This generalization is insane. I don't go to chiropractors regularly, and my situation was clearly be anecdotal, but there was one afternoon where any movement in my back caused me extreme pain. I scheduled a body massage to try to alleviate at least some of the pain but when I went it didn't help. Then my fiance suggested trying a chiropractor and I walked in, explained my pain, and in about 30 seconds it was all go…

You should read up on the placebo effect. edit: Just to clarify, there is no scientific evidence that chiro is effective as anything other than placebo. All evidence provided is anecdotal and hence useless.

OK. So let's say it is the placebo effect. You can pay $50 for a massage that will manage your pain or better yet get rid of it or you can pay 100's of dollars and your insurance 1000's to be relieved of the pain with pain killers and medicine you don't need. For my money I'll choose the $50 and if it doesn't work then I'll consider other treatment options. Its seems hospitals are starting to wise up to this too. Here is Rutgers University Hospital Pain Management Center for example: "We also refer patients for alternative techniques such as acupuncture, chiropractic care, bio-feedback, and self-hypnosis."

http://njms.rutgers.edu/departments/anesthesiology/pain_cent...

Re: Chiropractors are bullshit

#50

Post by Para2016 »

virtualwhys wrote: post #43

While I've never realized Nirvana through my chiropractic experiences, they have been immensely helpful in the short-term. For example, several years ago I spent the winter on the north shore of Oahu (Hawaii) surfing. The waves are often perfect and glassy, but pack a serious punch when you fall. I took a heavy wipeout, which left me as stiff necked as I've ever been. For a few days I could barely move my head from l…

>a quick jerking of the head

Please don't ever let anyone do that again. The two vertebral arteries that supply blood to your posterior brain (occipital lobe, cerebellum, medulla, pons) are encased in your cervical/neck vertebrae transverse processes. Quick manipulation of your neck with a "jerk" can injure these arteries and lead to dissection and infarct of your brain with permanent loss of function or it can even kill you.

I've survived a vertebral dissection caused by neck manipulation which lead to permanent loss of vision.

A dissection is injury to the inner lining of a blood vessel leading to clot formation over the tear. The clot can entirely obstruct the lumen of the vessel or parts can break off and obstruct downstream vessels leading to infarct.

Please don't let anyone manipulate your neck in the future.

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