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Meditation Becomes Beneficial Surprisingly Fast

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Re: Meditation Becomes Beneficial Surprisingly Fast

#21

Post by programnature »

petervandijck wrote: post #4
mannicken wrote: post #3

I used to meditate but no longer do since I'm starting to trip (audial/visual hallucinations) very fast and the trip is usually not a good one. It is a very powerful natural psychedelic experience, comparable to third plateau of DXM at least... but controllable, unlike DXM.

I don't think the idea is to get hallucinations?

Hallucinations are very common once you get high enough concentration. For example simple visual hallucinations (lights) is commonly associated with the onset what is called "access concentration". Complex hallucinations are also possible, visiting eg the "realm of the hungry ghosts" . A lot of this kind of stuff is talked about in http://www.interactivebuddha.com/mctb.shtml

Re: Meditation Becomes Beneficial Surprisingly Fast

#22

Post by div »

markbao wrote: post #11

| For the study, participants were taught to meditate by focusing on the sensation of their breathing, acknowledging and dismissing any stray thoughts that popped into their heads. For those who do practice meditation, what are other techniques that are effective to you?

I have not practiced in a long time, but the core idea of mindfulness meditation is to enjoy the "right here right now". If focusing on your breath isn't for you, you can focus on something else that puts you in that state, like closing your eyes and simply listening to the sounds around you.

This should help in quieting your inner monologue. When you find your brain trying to restart that monologue, just acknowledge that it happened and refocus. Remember not to think of these events as somehow being bad or failing since then you are dwelling on the past, just refocus without judging.

Edit: you may find this presentation that Jon Kabat-Zinn gave at Google interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nwwKbM_vJc

I also found his audio book "Mindfulness for Beginners" very enjoyable. The second cd contains 2 guided meditations which may help you get started.

Re: Meditation Becomes Beneficial Surprisingly Fast

#23

Post by edkennedy »

mannicken wrote: post #3

I used to meditate but no longer do since I'm starting to trip (audial/visual hallucinations) very fast and the trip is usually not a good one. It is a very powerful natural psychedelic experience, comparable to third plateau of DXM at least... but controllable, unlike DXM.

Perhaps it's overwhelming those who use dissociative drugs in high doses like yourself. I'm sure it's a good trip for those who have decided that they would rather not drink gallons of cough syrup. http://www.erowid.org/dxm

Re: Meditation Becomes Beneficial Surprisingly Fast

#24

Post by waivej »

markbao wrote: post #11

| For the study, participants were taught to meditate by focusing on the sensation of their breathing, acknowledging and dismissing any stray thoughts that popped into their heads. For those who do practice meditation, what are other techniques that are effective to you?

I have been burning birthday candles in little wooden heart shaped blocks. (drill 1/4" hole) They take about 20 minutes, and provide just enough structure and "accomplishment" to keep up the practice. I usually do this in the morning before dressing.

Initially, I would count breaths and see how long I could go without thinking about anything. Over time (years), the "water got clearer" and I usually spend the time drilling deep down to see how I am "really" feeling. It's like practice so I remember to do that throughout the day, and feels like a natural consequence of quieting your thoughts.

As for reading, I recommend "Three Pillars of Zen" to hear about other people's experiences with enlightenment, and www.101zenstories.com for koans to contemplate.

Re: Meditation Becomes Beneficial Surprisingly Fast

#25

Post by silentbicycle »

markbao wrote: post #11

| For the study, participants were taught to meditate by focusing on the sensation of their breathing, acknowledging and dismissing any stray thoughts that popped into their heads. For those who do practice meditation, what are other techniques that are effective to you?

I sit on a cushion for fifteen minutes or so, sitting cross-legged so that my back is relatively straight and my knees keep the whole posture relatively stable.

Beyond that, it's just sitting and observing. If (ok, when) I notice my focus has drifted and I'm getting caught up in thoughts, I stop feeding into them and return focus to my breath, posture, and surroundings.

It can be dreadfully boring, but when I do it periodically, it really does help - like taking the lid off a pot on the verge of boiling over. (It's an especially direct way to train your mind to stay focused, too.)

There's a decent chapter about sitting meditation in Brad Warner's _Hardcore Zen_, which I also recommend because it isn't a bunch of new-age-y sunshine and lollipops. (Looking at a lot of other Western books on Buddhism, you'd think Zen had antioxidants or something.)

Re: Meditation Becomes Beneficial Surprisingly Fast

#26

Post by anemecek »

Tawheed wrote: post #15

I learned Transcendental Meditation about a year ago, and it has had a seriously profound effect on my life.

I tried to look up more info about it but it seems like to learn anything, one has to take some $1500 course. Can you summarize how it differs from the standard meditation (i.e. zen meditation)?

Re: Meditation Becomes Beneficial Surprisingly Fast

#27

Post by programnature »

gojomo wrote: post #19
mannicken wrote: post #3

I used to meditate but no longer do since I'm starting to trip (audial/visual hallucinations) very fast and the trip is usually not a good one. It is a very powerful natural psychedelic experience, comparable to third plateau of DXM at least... but controllable, unlike DXM.

Some people react poorly to meditation -- even having hallucinations. See this story for more examples: http://www.sfweekly.com/2002-08-28/news/bad-vibes/ So sure, try it, but if it doesn't feel right, don't force it.

That article is shocking, in the sense that most of the meditation teachers are unaware of the bad side effects. Basic relaxation techniques are mostly harmless, but "serious" meditation very often leads to profound challenges to one's sense of self and perception of the world. In the religious traditions that cultivate it, that is in fact the point, and there are many stages that are highly challenging and unpleasant.

Re: Meditation Becomes Beneficial Surprisingly Fast

#28

Post by dkarl »

Oxryly wrote: post #17
markbao wrote: post #11

| For the study, participants were taught to meditate by focusing on the sensation of their breathing, acknowledging and dismissing any stray thoughts that popped into their heads. For those who do practice meditation, what are other techniques that are effective to you?

The article describes the basics of vipassana (insight) meditation. The same description applies to zazen, the meditation practice in Zen. I believe it is actually the basis for all meditative practice. You can layer on certain guided thoughts (like mantras and chants), but meditative practice is more powerful the simpler it is. You must strip away as much as possible -- to just sit and bring the body, breath, and mi…

I practice it as samatha meditation. If this was not HN I would have corrected you and say it was samatha (tranquility) meditation and not vipassana, but on HN I have learned that people usually know what they are talking about ;-) and thanks to Wikipedia I have just learned it is used for vipassana as well. Apparently the Buddha himself regarded it as a Swiss army knife that develops all "seven factors of awakening: sati (mindfulness), dhamma vicaya (analysis), viriya (persistence), which leads to piti (rapture), then to passaddhi (serenity), which in turn leads to samadhi (concentration) and then to upekkhā (equanimity)."

As I understand the distinction, samatha meditation develops the ability to achieve mental tranquility and sustained focus, and vipassana meditation develops insight through awareness, introspection, and rational analysis. It's easy to see why breath-awareness meditation can be used for samatha, but I did not understand how it could be used for vipassana. According to what I just read, it becomes vipassana when the meditator takes his consciousness itself as the object of awareness.

Re: Meditation Becomes Beneficial Surprisingly Fast

#29

Post by furyg3 »

Estragon wrote: post #20
markbao wrote: post #11

| For the study, participants were taught to meditate by focusing on the sensation of their breathing, acknowledging and dismissing any stray thoughts that popped into their heads. For those who do practice meditation, what are other techniques that are effective to you?

That description of meditation uses terms which cause a lot of confusion. Focusing on anything leads to problems. Dismissing thoughts leads to repression and unconscious expression of the thoughts. The way my teacher puts it is "rest in the experience of breathing." That means fostering awareness of every aspect of experience: the physical, the emotional and the mental. As for "effective," if you practice with any ho…

Why not drop the meditation and sleep a more-normal (and certainly more-refreshing) 7 hours a night?

Re: Meditation Becomes Beneficial Surprisingly Fast

#30

Post by adbge »

furyg3 wrote: post #29
Estragon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That description of meditation uses terms which cause a lot of confusion. Focusing on anything leads to problems. Dismissing thoughts leads to repression and unconscious expression of the thoughts. The way my teacher puts it is "rest in the experience of breathing." That means fostering awareness of every aspect of experience: the physical, the emotional and the mental. As for "effective," if you practice with any ho…

Why not drop the meditation and sleep a more-normal (and certainly more-refreshing) 7 hours a night?

Likely insomnia prevents him or her from getting more than 5 hours of sleep.
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