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Re: undefined

#11

Post by reitanqild »

Kequc wrote: post #7
cyberferret wrote: post #5

That was a gripping read. I was going to say that it might shed some light into the mental processes that these boys go through before they are indoctrinated into IS, but I think that is already quite well a well known and researched subject, so I will prevail from exploring it further here. What saddens me is that I regularly see similar snippets of declared fervent worshippers of a particular deity calling for outr…

You're making things up. You're not writing clearly about it and need to perform some more research. What persecution or mass extermination of which groups of people for example are you talking about?

I have a strong feeling that he is talking about Christians but I have never seen any of this.

I might hang in the "wrong" circles though.

Re: undefined

#12

Post by andyjohnson0 »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #3

I find it amazing the danger that these journalists in Mosul are putting themselves in just to get half a dozen photos, or a couple of minutes of video footage, or a few paragraphs. I was following Quentin Sommerville as he was livetweeting the battle for Mosul a couple of months ago, and it was amazing to see him there right on the front line getting shot at. I have nothing but the utmost respect for people who put…

Twenty eight reporters have died in Iraq since the start of 2014, including Veronique Robert who died today [1].

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/24/veronique-robe...

Re: undefined

#13

Post by breatheoften »

Kequc wrote: post #7
cyberferret wrote: post #5

That was a gripping read. I was going to say that it might shed some light into the mental processes that these boys go through before they are indoctrinated into IS, but I think that is already quite well a well known and researched subject, so I will prevail from exploring it further here. What saddens me is that I regularly see similar snippets of declared fervent worshippers of a particular deity calling for outr…

You're making things up. You're not writing clearly about it and need to perform some more research. What persecution or mass extermination of which groups of people for example are you talking about?

Uh -- the west has been killing large numbers of people in countries throughout the Middle East for decades. What research is needed to demonstrate that?

Airwars reports that us forces killed 432 civilians in Syria last month alone. That's a lot of people -- and they are being killed for imaginary reasons.

Re: undefined

#14

Post by reitanqild »

breatheoften wrote: post #13
Kequc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making things up. You're not writing clearly about it and need to perform some more research. What persecution or mass extermination of which groups of people for example are you talking about?

Uh -- the west has been killing large numbers of people in countries throughout the Middle East for decades. What research is needed to demonstrate that? Airwars reports that us forces killed 432 civilians in Syria last month alone. That's a lot of people -- and they are being killed for imaginary reasons.

You are defending something else. Nobody I'm aware of here is denying what you say.

This is what threadstarter wrote:

declared fervent worshippers of a particular deity calling for outright murder, persecution and mass extermination of entire groups of people

Re: undefined

#15

Post by breatheoften »

Wintamute wrote: post #9
cyberferret wrote: post #5

That was a gripping read. I was going to say that it might shed some light into the mental processes that these boys go through before they are indoctrinated into IS, but I think that is already quite well a well known and researched subject, so I will prevail from exploring it further here. What saddens me is that I regularly see similar snippets of declared fervent worshippers of a particular deity calling for outr…

Sorry, not buying it. You're drawing parallels between two wildly different demographics for cheap political point scoring, I find it rather distasteful given the subject matter. What similarities exist are tenuous and coincidental, and serve more to confuse any proper analysis than provide insight. Can you convince me that isn't the case? Over and above vague descriptions of some tweets you read that you didn't like…

The politics of these two groups are very related -- enemies are incredibly joined in politics. If Group A gains power by being against group B, then I _must_ be allowed to talk about the failings of group A -- your attempt to portray that as not allowed is incredibly damaging.

Reactions like yours about "distastefulness" has been the problem with the counterterrorism movement from the very beginning. Counterterrorism is a movement that works like this: there exists a group B of pure evil, they must be fought and opposed, group B is shadowy, includes small numbers of people, and the people who are in it are very similar to much larger groups not in B. This is a priori accepted -- any attempt to disagree with any of the above comments is working against counterterrorism.

What this environment causes is a very real perceived expansion of group B in the eyes of members of group A. It becomes a simple mechanism for leaders of group A to use their relationship to group B to remove any legitimate political voice from other groups C,D...

It is completely fair (and needed) to talk about the flaws of group A's behavior with regard to the concept of group B because the accepted concept of group B includes primarily people who are not in group B! Not doing this has already killed huge numbers of innocent people not in group B. It's sick and it's wrong. It was sick under Obama and it's still sick and wrong.

Re: undefined

#16

Post by breatheoften »

reitanqild wrote: post #14
breatheoften wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh -- the west has been killing large numbers of people in countries throughout the Middle East for decades. What research is needed to demonstrate that? Airwars reports that us forces killed 432 civilians in Syria last month alone. That's a lot of people -- and they are being killed for imaginary reasons.

You are defending something else. Nobody I'm aware of here is denying what you say. This is what threadstarter wrote: declared fervent worshippers of a particular deity calling for outright murder, persecution and mass extermination of entire groups of people

That is a characterization of the right wing base of the counter terrorism movement. There is a huge group of people in the West who believe that Christianity/West and Islam are in a holy war -- these play a large role in defining the actions of the counterterrorism movement. Many many western soldiers will profess that they believe the problem with terrorism is about Islam - and many of those just happen to be Christian's themselves. They might cloak their words but they have slowly over time cemented their positions. Given their actions and the deaths they have caused what reason do you have to claim they are not pursuing a goal of murdering groups of people to extermination? The west has actually started using the word "exterminate" to characterize their goals with regard to ISIS -- the reality is that this goal can be spoken in a narrow term as targeted toward some small specific thing like ISIS -- but it cannot (and does not and has not for a long time) exist as such a narrow specific thing when put into action. Large numbers of innocents are killed as this objective is chased -- and the targeting process only ever expands to include more targets.

If we are generous, we at best could describe western fundamentalists as having the goal of murdering mass groups of people to marginalization -- is that really that different than quoted passage?

Re: undefined

#17

Post by breatheoften »

reitanqild wrote: post #14
breatheoften wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh -- the west has been killing large numbers of people in countries throughout the Middle East for decades. What research is needed to demonstrate that? Airwars reports that us forces killed 432 civilians in Syria last month alone. That's a lot of people -- and they are being killed for imaginary reasons.

You are defending something else. Nobody I'm aware of here is denying what you say. This is what threadstarter wrote: declared fervent worshippers of a particular deity calling for outright murder, persecution and mass extermination of entire groups of people

I'm re-reading some comments and it seems some people are disagreeing about the nature of the twitter supporters referenced in the parent post.

Maybe it's possible commenters have never trawled through the twitter mass? I've done so and occasionally tweeted to try and find if the people were real -- many are. I'm not sure how people can disagree that there is merit to the parents characterization if they perform this exercise themselves ...

Re: undefined

#18

Post by rdtsc »

cyberferret wrote: post #5

That was a gripping read. I was going to say that it might shed some light into the mental processes that these boys go through before they are indoctrinated into IS, but I think that is already quite well a well known and researched subject, so I will prevail from exploring it further here. What saddens me is that I regularly see similar snippets of declared fervent worshippers of a particular deity calling for outr…

I think you misspelled "supporters of recently failed to be elected Western politician". And like you said, which I totally agree with, I've seen not only calls for assassination, cars set on fire, windows smashed, ambulances blocked on the way to the hospitals, but also out right murder attempts, up to actual assassinations.

Re: undefined

#19

Post by watwut »

breatheoften wrote: post #16
reitanqild wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are defending something else. Nobody I'm aware of here is denying what you say. This is what threadstarter wrote: declared fervent worshippers of a particular deity calling for outright murder, persecution and mass extermination of entire groups of people

That is a characterization of the right wing base of the counter terrorism movement. There is a huge group of people in the West who believe that Christianity/West and Islam are in a holy war -- these play a large role in defining the actions of the counterterrorism movement. Many many western soldiers will profess that they believe the problem with terrorism is about Islam - and many of those just happen to be Chris…

There are also differences through. No one in West is thrown out of roof for being gay, people can speak against Christianity and holy war without being executed. While wearing too revealing cloth may disadvantage me in workplace due to assumptions, I won't be stoned or whatever. 14 years old boys are not radicalised to by preachers to become martyrs. Those are rather important differences.

Conservative Christian journal I read may whine about men not being head of the families anymore and women not being women anymore, but even they don't dispute voting and property rights.

Re: undefined

#20

Post by breatheoften »

watwut wrote: post #19
breatheoften wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a characterization of the right wing base of the counter terrorism movement. There is a huge group of people in the West who believe that Christianity/West and Islam are in a holy war -- these play a large role in defining the actions of the counterterrorism movement. Many many western soldiers will profess that they believe the problem with terrorism is about Islam - and many of those just happen to be Chris…

There are also differences through. No one in West is thrown out of roof for being gay, people can speak against Christianity and holy war without being executed. While wearing too revealing cloth may disadvantage me in workplace due to assumptions, I won't be stoned or whatever. 14 years old boys are not radicalised to by preachers to become martyrs. Those are rather important differences. Conservative Christian jou…

I'm not sure how this is related to what I wrote? Are you saying that "exterminate ISIS" should expand to "exterminate Saudi Arabia" because Saudi Arabia currently mistreats homosexuals and women?
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