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Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

bicycletimesmag.com

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Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#91

Post by and0 »

coldpie wrote: post #68
landhar wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Neither the biker nor the driver in the OP's post are in the wrong In the OP's situation, the drivers that exhibit aggressive and dangerous behavior are clearly in the wrong. You could argue that their frustration is understandable, but their behavior is certainly wrong.

So is the guy who steals an unlocked bike. What are you going to do? You're going to not create that situation in the first place. You're going to use a bike lock. "Share the road" is a dumb solution, as evidenced by the OP. It simply does not work . Find another solution.

Sounds like you're really stretching here.

Share the road works fine as a solution without dramatically overhauling current infrastructure. Just don't be a mean driver.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#92

Post by coldpie »

untog wrote: post #86
coldpie wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is the guy who steals an unlocked bike. What are you going to do? You're going to not create that situation in the first place. You're going to use a bike lock. "Share the road" is a dumb solution, as evidenced by the OP. It simply does not work . Find another solution.

To be clear: you think that someone stealing an unlocked bike is not "in the wrong"?

I agree I phrased that poorly. My point is humans are predictable. If you leave an unlocked bike, it will get stolen. Yes, it's the thief's fault and the thief is wrong, but you could have done something to avoid it, too.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#93

Post by maxerickson »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #11

Easily the biggest problem in the US with biking is that the infrastructure is, nearly without exception, absolutely atrocious. Nobody would accept having only 'painted walk lanes' on busy streets to get around, much less having them appear and disappear from the road seemingly at random, and yet that's the default state of bike lanes in nearly all US cities. If biking had as much infrastructure as even walking -- me…

A lot of places have quite a lot of streets that don't even have sidewalks.

I occasionally see people walking to the hospital here, in the lane on a 25 MPH street.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#94

Post by TulliusCicero »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #69
flippyhead wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anyone can do the same, anywhere. I love Holland and I love biking but you guys have it easy compared to, say, Seattle where I live part-time. The hills make it a very different problem. I bike a lot but will still drive/uber when I can't deal with being crazy sweaty for a meeting or something. I was very disappointed when they decided NOT to install electric bikes in the bike share system here. Electric bikes are…

AFAICT Seattle has fewer hills than Aarhus, Denmark. 47% of commutes in Aarhus are done by bicycle.

I'm pretty sure Seattle has much more severe hills, though. Just look at Google Maps for each city with the terrain on:

Aarhus: https://www.google.de/maps/place/Aarhus,+Denmark/@56.1613594...

Seattle: https://www.google.de/maps/place/Seattle,+WA,+USA/@47.607081...

That said,

* Electric bikes are making this less important over time

* A lot of trips can still be done without hitting severe hills

* It's possible to deal with hills by installing bike escalators (there's one in Trondheim that seems to work well) if you're really serious

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#95

Post by maxerickson »

pc86 wrote: post #72
throwaway2016a wrote: post #57

Ironically (perhaps?) I think in the US the cities are often doing a good job but suburbs are awful. At least where I live, I can bike in my own neighborhood but to get from my neighborhood to the commercial districts where the actual jobs are I need to essentially go on a highway and share the road with 40 MPH cars. When neighborhoods are spread out it makes biking hard. Where I am at least, neighborhoods tend to be…

In my state it is illegal for anything but a motorized vehicle to be on the highway (and rightfully so as most traffic is 70 mph+ outside of rush hour). With rare exception I've seen cyclists on most of the busy multi-lane surface streets where it is 45+ and traffic is going 10-15 faster than that. What metro area are you in? It seems odd that there are no surface streets at all between two points just a few miles aw…

"highway" has lots of definitions. Lots of people don't mean a limited access road when they say highway.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#96

Post by baldfat »

michaelt wrote: post #16
awjr wrote: post #7

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/15/urban-planner... However the argument against cycle tracks focuses on resident car parking and becomes extremely political. So a key part of developing a good end to end cycle network, given that a network i…

The arguments for segregated cycle tracks (physical barriers) rather than cycle lanes (paint) can be answered by one question: "Would you let your child cycle here?" Where I live, when segregated cycle tracks meet T junctions the layout is often like so: | C | ----------------------------------| a |-------- Cycles ◅ | r | ▷ ----------------------------------| s |-------- divider | | ----------------------------------…

My City, Allentown, PA was going to do that with two one way roads roads that travel East West. Making the two roads 1 lane each. Got shot down hard. Instead they placed share road markers. After being flipped off, beeped at and treated like I should die I never bike in my city.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#97

Post by coldpie »

nkrisc wrote: post #74
coldpie wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so now they're undergoing a renovation for bikes. Good! Renovate them to accommodate bikes. That's great, do more of that. But "sharing the road" is a terrible solution, which leads to the honks and dangerous situations the OP described. Neither the biker nor the drivers in the OP's post are in the wrong. It's just a really terrible situation that really should not happen.

Sharing the road is dangerous with dangerous, aggressive drivers. Tailgating and bumping bikers is the fault of the driver, not an unavoidable consequence of sharing the road.

So why does it happen, and how do you propose to solve this? Complain on the Internet? Shake your first at those damn angry drivers? Something something driver's education? I mean, this is a real problem. "Share the road" doesn't work, and complaining on the Internet isn't going to suddenly fix it.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#98

Post by TulliusCicero »

jrf6 wrote: post #81
TulliusCicero wrote: post #11

Easily the biggest problem in the US with biking is that the infrastructure is, nearly without exception, absolutely atrocious. Nobody would accept having only 'painted walk lanes' on busy streets to get around, much less having them appear and disappear from the road seemingly at random, and yet that's the default state of bike lanes in nearly all US cities. If biking had as much infrastructure as even walking -- me…

I've been a cyclist in DC (and Boston) for almost 20 years, and the changes over that time have been fairly astounding. Overall, DC is doing a pretty good job [0]. The gradual transition from a little stripe to demarcate the bike lane to protected cycle tracks that take up a full lane of traffic has made a huge difference. [0] - http://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/03/08/street-by-street-dc-bu...

To be sure, the progress made in recent years in progressive cities is heartening, and the more people we get into cycling via modest means, the easier it is politically to get more substantive changes, like protected intersections or complete networks of physically protected bike paths.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#99

Post by TulliusCicero »

maxerickson wrote: post #93
TulliusCicero wrote: post #11

Easily the biggest problem in the US with biking is that the infrastructure is, nearly without exception, absolutely atrocious. Nobody would accept having only 'painted walk lanes' on busy streets to get around, much less having them appear and disappear from the road seemingly at random, and yet that's the default state of bike lanes in nearly all US cities. If biking had as much infrastructure as even walking -- me…

A lot of places have quite a lot of streets that don't even have sidewalks. I occasionally see people walking to the hospital here, in the lane on a 25 MPH street.

You're right, but nevertheless in most cities, sidewalks on nearly every street are the norm.

My point is really to just illustrate a mentality difference. If cyclists clamor for a handful of protected bike lanes, they get accused of wanting 'special treatment'. And yet, what they ask for is at least an order of magnitude less than what everyone takes for granted about walking, let alone the resources we allocate to cars.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#100

Post by auxym »

coldpie wrote: post #87
ehnto wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to figure out a harmonious scenario, sharing the road is absolutely the answer right now because the road is all we have to work with at the moment. In a perfect for me world the CBD would have zero cars and everyone would be on bikes, foot or mobility devices after they parked on the CBD fringe carparks or caught public transport in. That will never happen. So the next best step for me is dedicated bike lane…

I actually take the bus most places, I only drive once or twice a week, to the grocery store or so. I have no real skin in this game. In my experience, and in the OP's experience, "share the road" is a dumb, dangerous solution that leaves everyone unhappy. Bikers should refuse to put up with it. Demand real lanes.

The vast majority of advocacy groups do demand real lanes.

The thing, I want to commute to work today. Do I just stay home and yell at politicians until a lane is built? Or do I legally use the existing roadways?

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