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Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker

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Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker

#51

I see he has a copy of "Watchmaking" by George Daniels. That is the "Knuth" of watchmaking. Here in Britain, we have Roger W Smith, the only watchmaker in the world who makes everything by hand. He was the principal disciple of George Daniels, a truly legendary watchmaker, who sadly died a few years ago. Daniels famously taught himself watchmaking by taking apart old clocks, putting them back together and repairing t…

If anyone is really interested in Watchmaking, I wouldn't start out with G. Daniel's book. It's really about making a watch from raw materials.

I would start with books by Fried. If you feel comfortable with 90% of Practical Watch Repair in a year, or two; go for Daniel's book. I guarantee most will not get through Practical Watch Repair, but might come back to the hobby/profession later in life. When time is more cherished?

George Daniels was a brilliant Watchmaker. The book is o.k. There are parts of the book where it seemed rushed. George expects the reader to have a working knowledge of basic watch repair, and know exactly how a mechanical watch function. There's not much on repair, cleaning, or oiling.

I really liked Kikuno's workshop. That is years worth for tooling too. It's not cheap stuff either. My point is don't go out and spend a fortune on tooling until you can clean, oil, and time a 17 jeweled wristwatch with under $500 worth of tools.

It's a really a good feeling resurrecting an older watch, and knowing how to fix it if it breaks down, or runs slow.

That said, I'll get political. Many of the major watch houses will not sell you parts for your watch. You buy a $10 grand Rolex, and can't buy a new crown. They claim it's for quality assurance, but it's a money grab. That's it. The govenemment knows it violates The Sherman Anti-trust Act, but they have bigger fish to fry--I guess? They said it was a rich man's problem? This said while they wearing Rolexes(couldn't be gifts?), with Lobbyists scurrying around in the chambers.

If you do get good at watch repair, you will look at watches, maybe the world, differently?

Since I got into watch repair, I stopped looking at the outside of many mechanical things. It just happened? Maybe because I used to be an auto mechanic, but I believe it was the watch repair that changed me.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker

#52

I see he has a copy of "Watchmaking" by George Daniels. That is the "Knuth" of watchmaking. Here in Britain, we have Roger W Smith, the only watchmaker in the world who makes everything by hand. He was the principal disciple of George Daniels, a truly legendary watchmaker, who sadly died a few years ago. Daniels famously taught himself watchmaking by taking apart old clocks, putting them back together and repairing t…

Beside Knuth, another celebrity, namely Sussman, made a lecture on mechanical watches https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gerald+sussman+mechanical+watch&at...

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds a lot like he was forcing himself to do the work in order to succeed and to be "regarded honorably".

I think the idea is that the key to being regarded honorably is to be really good at what you claim you do. And a life time is only long enough to master, i mean, really master, a single thing. I think it must be a totally alien, or even irritating, idea to a bunch who expects to paid enormous sum of money because they have done a crash course in JavaScript spanning a month and claims to be able to build websites tha…

Excellent comment. I feel this while taking a mind numbing course on "Spring Cloud". Everything about it drips of mediocrity, but I can add "Expert in Spring Cloud' to CV and get hired by company who wouldn't care a bit about carefully written software.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker

#54
post #39

Since so many knowledgeable people interested in watches are around here ... What are some affordable, good quality watch brands? Somewhere around 100 to 300 Euro maybe? I like those beautiful, elegant designed watches but 10k EUR upwards is way out of my league.

You might like to look into Parnis. The brand is used by a group of Chinese makers producing watches with decent, if budget, internals and styling inspired by famous brands. Some people find it's a good way to see what style of watch will suit them when they're rich, some people think it's cheap plagiarism. I've got two that I'm very pleased with.

If you decide on this path you'll need to do a bit of research and exploring first. A good starting point is this thread: http://forums.watchuseek.com/f72/buying-parnis-read-first-79...

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker

#55

I see he has a copy of "Watchmaking" by George Daniels. That is the "Knuth" of watchmaking. Here in Britain, we have Roger W Smith, the only watchmaker in the world who makes everything by hand. He was the principal disciple of George Daniels, a truly legendary watchmaker, who sadly died a few years ago. Daniels famously taught himself watchmaking by taking apart old clocks, putting them back together and repairing t…

> Here in Britain, we have Roger W Smith, the only watchmaker in the world who makes everything by hand.

I don't know if Roger Smith literally makes everything from scratch, but if I recall correctly Philippe Dufour and FP Journe are approximately as "in-house" as he is (though Journe is becoming relatively mainstream these days).

I would say Dufour is approaching the same legendary status Smith has, especially considering the waiting list (and auctions) for Simplicity models.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker

#56
post #39

Since so many knowledgeable people interested in watches are around here ... What are some affordable, good quality watch brands? Somewhere around 100 to 300 Euro maybe? I like those beautiful, elegant designed watches but 10k EUR upwards is way out of my league.

You can also check out the used market. I mostly buy mechanical watches from the 60s through the 80s, you can often find cool vintage stuff with some patina for $20-60, including shipping. Check out the WatchUSeek forums, or the WatchRecon app on Android. Many sellers are in Europe, too.

If you want a new watch, I'd start looking at Seiko, Citizen, and Seagull watches in your price range.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker

#57
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The watchmaker is selling his watches for between $45k and $250k and producing one a year on average so yes, he'll need rich customers. I suspect that there may be a different market in Japan though - perhaps older and more traditional people. Sooner or later he will need to take on an apprentice - it would be nice if he can start a school like that. You mentioned electronics, and the Japanese tradition of craftsmen…

That is not that much of an income taking into the skill going into these watches. Wonder if he has to deal with much repairs and returns?

Repairs yes, returns not so much.

Every independent watchmaker has to deal with repairs, but once you pass six figures or so for a single timepiece you don't see them outright returned much anymore (statistically speaking).

Even at high five figures you don't see them returned very often, but you do see a valley of returns at the low five figure mark ($10-$30k), or at least a lot of reselling. This is the ceiling at which a watch is "affordable" for people who aren't wealthy if they are well-paid, have few to no obligations and are fiscally irresponsible, which often results in buyer's remorse. This is one of the reasons why it's comparatively easy to find a mint or near-mint preowned watch at a significant discount less than two years out from original production year for a lot of "entry level" timepieces from the most high end brands (Lange, Vacheron, Patek, etc). You won't find similar discounts at the mid, high or ultra-high tiers within these brands, because they circulate less.

Moreover, buyers who are more likely to regret their purchase typically buy more recognizable brands. Buying from an independent takes a higher commitment to the art of haute horlogerie because virtually no one is going to recognize, even among people who recognize more than just Rolex. The market for reselling an independent-made timepiece is also lower (though in the case of someone like Smith or Dufour, this is probably not a concern).

Source: Watch hobbyist, I own an A. Lange & Söhne and Nomos Glashütte, frequent watch forums and read watch blogs.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker

#58
post #6

This reminds me actually a lot of Jiro Ono (famed sushi-maker). "Once you decide on your occupation, you must immerse yourself in your work. You have to fall in love with your work. Never complain about your job. You must dedicate your life to mastering your skill. That's the secret of success and is the key to being regarded honorably."

Sounds a lot like he was forcing himself to do the work in order to succeed and to be "regarded honorably".

Take in consideration the culture difference here. In Japan perfect the craft is considered highly valuable (when the culture in USA, is about get more profits).

So, I assume that this apply only if you like the job. If you don't like the job, how can you actually commit to it?

I remember an old documentary (forget the name, sorry) that show that the government(?) give funds to people like him that still get alive old ways to do stuff. I remember the documentary talk about build samurai swords, pottery and jeans(?). This last one stuck to me because was claimed the jeans will last 100 years or something like that.

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker

#59
post #9

I love watchmakers, it is such a blend of skills that I don't even know where to begin with my praise or interest in the field. I just want to throw out there that Dan Spitz, of Anthrax fame makes watches as well, and has an interesting story too. https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/interview-meet-dan-spitz-a...

Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7862092

Re: Masahiro Kikuno, Japanese Independent Watchmaker

#60

I see he has a copy of "Watchmaking" by George Daniels. That is the "Knuth" of watchmaking. Here in Britain, we have Roger W Smith, the only watchmaker in the world who makes everything by hand. He was the principal disciple of George Daniels, a truly legendary watchmaker, who sadly died a few years ago. Daniels famously taught himself watchmaking by taking apart old clocks, putting them back together and repairing t…

If anyone is really interested in Watchmaking, I wouldn't start out with G. Daniel's book. It's really about making a watch from raw materials. I would start with books by Fried. If you feel comfortable with 90% of Practical Watch Repair in a year, or two; go for Daniel's book. I guarantee most will not get through Practical Watch Repair, but might come back to the hobby/profession later in life. When time is more ch…

I agree 100%. I wouldn't recommend trying to teach yourself programming from Knuth either, hence the comparison :)

On the political side, you might want to keep a close eye on Anthony Cousins' ongoing lawsuit against the Swatch group (ETA). If he wins, it will affect Rolex and others too.

To be fair to Rolex, their big problem is not with QC, but fakes incorporating genuine parts. It's a pretty unique problem that doesn't affect any other brand to the same extent.

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