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Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

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Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#221

Post by Banthum »

neuronexmachina wrote: post #87
geon wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't understand that rethoric. You get a new consumer as well, so you have merely increased the population.

The belief that economics is a zero-sum game is sadly quite prevalent.

It's not about zero sum.

It's about supply and demand.

If you supply labor at X skill level, an influx of immigrants at X skill level (but not of Y or Z skill level) will reduce the buying power of your wages.

Taking it to real life - people tend to oppose immigration when they are at X skill level, and support it when they are at Y or Z skill level. It's raw self-interest often dressed up as altruism or principle.

You can see this understanding here whenever H1B is discussed - suddenly supply and demand becomes an obvious economic concept.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#222

Post by jgh »

rtpg wrote: post #173
KGIII wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The complaints that I read are often that they aren't actually jobs that couldn't be fulfilled here, with local talent. There have been many claims of training your replacement. If you're training them, it seems most probable that you're able to do the job. There is only a small subset that seems to just be bigoted. And, yes, they do exist. I am pretty sure they are low in number. Most of the complaints are about thi…

You know what can solve most of the issues? Better worker protections. Stopping immigration doesn't stop you from having to train your replacement, they'll just be American instead. Making companies have to treat their workers with a bit of civility will solve a lot of problems.

Ah then I suppose we are in a bind because the party mentioned a couple parents up also seems to hate worker protections...

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#223

Post by Banthum »

alva wrote: post #137
Warvick wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only wondered why US will not open up to the countries, that are known for being safe, with well educated and easy to integrate citizens. US is opening its borders to rich countries instead of opening to safe bets to grab some tech talent. There are numerous countries that fit this profile. The majority of Central/Eastern Europe, few Asian and South American countries, even with Africa having some. Instead, they ex…

It is quite a puzzle. I have spent some time thinking about it however the only solution I reach seems conspiratorial. To me, it seems obvious that every financially successful (through merit or otherwise) and well educated person you can draw into your country, the better. If such a person makes your country home, the likely-hood of them contributing to the economy is high. Despite this, emigrating to the US from We…

It is a mystery. I don't think it's some grand thought-out non-poaching agreement, though. I think you have to break it down to domestic politics.

The left wants to maximize multiculturalism. This has become a sort of fundamental value to that tribe (rather than a means to an end), and their fundamental anti-value is racism/xenophobia/intolerance of anyone not white-Christian. So that tribe will resist any hint of an attempt to selectively immigrating people from culturally or racially similar countries, because such immigration actually threatens to reduce multiculturalism, which to them is a fundamentally evil thing. So they'd call it racist.

In addition, even just choosing people for wealth or intelligence or English skills, you'd end up with a big cultural/racial skew towards white people (compared to the world population), so the left would call it racist for the same reasons.

Those on the right might be happy with such immigration, but it's too difficult of an argument to make and it's too easy for the left to call them racists if they suggest anything like it. So as a proxy, they tend to argue for reducing all immigration.

I must be missing a lot of the details but I think it's some sort of political compromise/deadlock like this.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#224

Post by Banthum »

marcell wrote: post #218
muninn_ wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. So are you in favor of unrestricted immigration? 2. Yes but that doesn't answer any questions.

1. Within reason, yea pretty much. If we had sane government, I'd be in favor of, say, 10x increases on all types of immigration over the next 10 years. This means hi tech workers, low tech workers, families of current immigrants, amnesty for illegal immigrants, everything. The economy will adapt, and we'll find a way to make use for them. 2. Hopefully (1) does

Okay, I'm not taking the piss - let me ask you an honest question.

10 years of 10x immigration would be 100,000,000 people, so about 11 cities the size of New York of 100% new immigrants. Such masses could not possibly assimilate to any significant degree; they'd obviously form huge enclaves.

Presumably you'd want to live amongst them, and you would not preferentially move to a neighborhood of people with your culture and upbringing and language. Fair enough.

My question is, instead of bringing them to America, why don't you just go to them? You could move to Brazil. Or India. These places are incredibly diverse. You could do it this year and you'd have your desired result immediately.

You're obviously not attached to anything about American people or culture, so what keeps you here?

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#225

Post by zeusdx »

zabana wrote: post #181

I'm surprised no other country has decided to go ahead and create an equally as open and safe environment for entrepreneurs to start companies. My understanding (which, I'll admit, is only based on my own observations) is that the vast majority of people outside the western sphere still regard the US through what's projected in hollywood movies and aren't really in touch with the reality of what life is in modern ame…

Incorrect. UK has Tier 1 - Entrepreneur Visa where you can remain and run a company for 5 years. After 5 years, you can apply for extension for another 5 years or apply for settlement.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#226

Post by zeusdx »

Indolat wrote: post #99

Unfortunately, the immigration policies of most countries in the world are one huge stupid joke. Why so much obsession about the country where people were born into? It wasn't their choice at all. It just doesn't matter. The only questions you should be asking are "are they decent people? Are they willing to integrate? Will they contribute to our economy? Will they make us problems?" And none of these questions you c…

UK has Tier 1 - Entrepreneur Visa where you can remain and run a company for 5 years. After 5 years, you can apply for extension for another 5 years or apply for settlement. You are judged based on your talent and not on where you were born.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#227

Post by HalteMich »

ktta wrote: post #209
ryanmarsh wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that way. However if we really wanted to deny border crossing we would. It just isn't really a priority. The issue gets a lot of air time but do you think if it really was a national priority it would be so easy to cross? When I was a kid we used to cross the river into Mexico to go eat (on hunting trips near the border). We'd pay a guy to row us across and then back. It was a well known thing. People from b…

>if we really wanted to deny border crossing we would. It just isn't really a priority. I doubt it. If you really wanted to deny border crossing, you'd have to allocate so much money to ICE that it would upend the federdal spending budget. It isn't feasible easily. That would make the current administration look stupider that it already is.

Hyperbole

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#228

Post by Iv »

marcell wrote: post #15

From the article: "To qualify for the rule, entrepreneurs would have to meet high standards. A foreigner must demonstrate that he or she will contribute to economic growth or job creation and show that a reputable investor has put at least $250,000 into the company. Under this rule, they can stay in the U.S. for 30 months, with the possibility of a 30-month extension. They cannot apply for a green card during this pe…

> Is the USA really so appealing that talented entrepreneurs will jump through this many hoops to start their company here?

As a French cofounder of a small startup: no. We are looking at making a structure in Canada in order to hunt US money. We assume that immigration in the US will be a nightmare and we have tons of other problems to solve. European funds and Chinese investors are also interested in our tech.

Actually, we should explore if US talents are not willing to move out, to France or Canada instead.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#229

Post by zeusdx »

If US doesn't want startup entrepreneurs there are plenty of other countries that have specialized visas to promote entrepreneurs and talent.

For example, UK has "Tier 1 - Entrepreneur Visa" where you can remain and run a company for 5 years. After 5 years, you can apply for extension for another 5 years or apply for settlement.

There is also UK "Tier 1 - Exceptional Talent" visa where you can apply to remain and work in UK without requiring any sponsorship from companies unlike H1B visa in US which requires company sponsorship.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#230

Post by j_koreth »

Banthum wrote: post #224
marcell wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Within reason, yea pretty much. If we had sane government, I'd be in favor of, say, 10x increases on all types of immigration over the next 10 years. This means hi tech workers, low tech workers, families of current immigrants, amnesty for illegal immigrants, everything. The economy will adapt, and we'll find a way to make use for them. 2. Hopefully (1) does

Okay, I'm not taking the piss - let me ask you an honest question. 10 years of 10x immigration would be 100,000,000 people, so about 11 cities the size of New York of 100% new immigrants. Such masses could not possibly assimilate to any significant degree; they'd obviously form huge enclaves. Presumably you'd want to live amongst them, and you would not preferentially move to a neighborhood of people with your cultur…

What makes Indians or Brazilians special in that they can't eventually integrate as is the case with previous waves or Irish and Eastern European immigrants? Surely if American culture is so fragile that immigration would break it then it would have happened already.
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