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Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

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Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#361
post #351
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if this gets too tangential, but ... you ever notice how people are horrified by that, but at the same time actively advocate that the government use its "bargaining" (monopsony) power to force down drug prices, and believe the only downsides will be to drug company profits?

This is an incredibly facetious example. You have to remember that the drug companies have effective monopolies for many expensive drugs. Do you actually believe that the government should be forced (by legislation) to accept unilaterally decreed prices by drug companies? These prices are not set by any market, so they have no relation to the cost of the drug or the research & development that went into discovering i…

> You have to remember that the drug companies have effective monopolies for many expensive drugs.

I think it is funny that the people demand the government force companies to lower prices caused by the government granting a monopoly to said companies why way of the patent system....

How about we just end patents.

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure is a better service imho, but is it actually succeeding? I'd argue it is not, yet.

Better service? That is highly arguable. What Azure and GCE both have over AWS is better performance and better cost. AWS on the other hand has more services that just work together. So you either choose ease of integration or better performance. My company chose ease of integration. Example, Amazon owns its CDN, Amazon owns all its services. Everything is in house, developed to work together, and just works out of t…

> Same with SLA. AWS has a better up time than Azure and GCE.

That's not necessarily true: https://www.theinformation.com/how-aws-stacks-up-against-riv...

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If ever there were a use case for a lawsuit punitive damages, some poor company that is driven out of business by a well-documented case of this would be it. I know I'm being naive here but I feel that it should be clear to anyone with a sense of propriety that the big company should have to pay the liquidation cost for the small one!

Yes, suing your biggest distributor is a great way to succeed in business.

That's exactly my point! That and the fact that lawmakers are too weak willed (or have too little leverage) to take a stand against stuff like this is why big businesses are able to get away with this blatantly unethical behavior. Anyway, my example was an already-failed business for a reason!

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#364
post #361
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an incredibly facetious example. You have to remember that the drug companies have effective monopolies for many expensive drugs. Do you actually believe that the government should be forced (by legislation) to accept unilaterally decreed prices by drug companies? These prices are not set by any market, so they have no relation to the cost of the drug or the research & development that went into discovering i…

> You have to remember that the drug companies have effective monopolies for many expensive drugs. I think it is funny that the people demand the government force companies to lower prices caused by the government granting a monopoly to said companies why way of the patent system.... How about we just end patents.

I mean there are plenty of reasons not to do that

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't (and they don't promise) encryption such that AWS can't see everything, if they were in fact malicious. This is true of every cloud. That said, it's not illegal for them to see that xxx vendor increased their storage costs/bandwidth costs by $yyy every month, and that you could look into it - without using one piece of encrypted data. Disclosure: Former AWS

I was thinking client-side encryption and decryption, and if you need to run operations on the server, utilizing homomorphic encryption practices. Is this not feasible or just naive?

How do you stop the cloud provider from accessing ram or cpu cache. At some point the data has to be decrypted for it to be used. And if decrypted on Amazon equipment, then Amazon could in theory gain access to it.

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#366
post #220

I sold to Walmart for 4 years. In the beginning we believed we were lucky to become vendors. Then we realized how much stress they created. Every single year they would short pay our invoices. We would have to submit a claim with Walmart accounting. This process was completely and utterly time consuming. But the worst of it, they wouldn't pay the invoices owed until a year later. It's hard to float a $100,000 short p…

Don't think this is unique to Walmart. Being big players, it's always very hard to play hard ball them for small business.

Its amazing how many times Net 30 turns into Net 120 when dealing with a larger company. I noticed (in the 90s when I cared about such things) that companies that paid from banks at the end of the chain (like, oh say, a Montana bank) were more likely to pull that crud.

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen Game Publishers do this with milestone payments but for a different effect. One of the common clauses is that the publisher gets all assets(source code, art, etc) in the case of a studio folding. They then intentionally delay milestone payments about 3/4 of the way though the project, watch the company fold(since that's the highest-burn part of the project) and then re-hire 2/3rds of the existing staff who…

These types of practices make me sad for humanity.

I mean, the two parties have a diametrically opposed view of how the world works and what their own moral obligations are.

One party thinks they're trying to make good games, and getting paid in the process.

The other party views the rest of the world as a potential money machine, and they're just optimizing around which lever to pull to maximize their return.

Matt Levine had a fun article[1] about this happening in a different context. 'FERC built a terrible box, and the box had some buttons that were labeled “push here for money,” and JPMorgan pushed them and got money.'

One approach isn't necessarily 'wrong' and the other 'right', but bad things obviously happen if you thought you were working with a business partner, but instead you got a shark.

[1] http://dealbreaker.com/2013/07/electricity-market-rules-were...

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright is the much larger "danger to culture". We invented it to try to keep artistic recompense safe, but like most idealistic propositions, the sharks have moved in and gamed it and now we are all worse off. Allowing anyone to make any type of contribution without fear of a crackdown from Big Legal leads to a much more prosperous culture. This is already becoming reality as the internet has made traditional copy…

I've heard that the golden post-copyright era ushered in by the internet is coming for a long time, but all I've seen is indie game companies going out of business, games/applications including online features no matter how unnecessary, and much of Hollywood switching to a spitfire methodology. Not exactly advances for culture.

I don't mean that the internet will create unbounded prosperity for authors or creators. We can see that its effect is in fact the opposite (large companies are only somewhat isolated from this by their massive legal war chests and latent political clout, derived from employing a significant portion of a representative's constituency).

I mean that culture prospers more by allowing people to create and publish whatever iteration, derivation, or alteration they want than by ensuring a small group of well-moneyed "idea owners" can utilize the force of the state to monopolize significant cultural icons and stop people from going "too far" in their cultural iterations (that is, too likely to win the favor of the public as compared to the "owner's" offering; being too desirable and competitive).

The viability of establishing a revenue stream from this cultural lather is separate from the value or existence of a fertile culture itself. Creation will always occur. Copyright is just a matter of how far those creations are allowed to grow and/or spread before they get crushed by someone else's bank account (which can have chilling effects on the back-end, preventing the incubation of certain ideas due to uncomfortable legal risk, but it won't stop the ideas from germinating).

Culture is in a bad state when disseminating the wrong ideas in the wrong medium can result in the complete forfeiture of all earthly freedoms. If you sell T-shirts bearing Mickey Mouse's image without the permission of the "owner" of that cultural icon, you may very well find yourself not only deprived of your possessions through a costly legal battle (which you have lost before you begin), but potentially also deprived of your liberty when you're jailed for criminal copyright infringement. All because our concern for an active "culture" somehow translates into preventing derivatives, iterations, or improvements, blocking normal feedback and optimization processes and hopelessly distorting the market.

Fanfic authors have been sued for getting too close to the "owner's" trademarks. It's an entirely unnatural state of affairs and it stifles our cultural maturity.

Personally, I would suggest that people stop expecting passive IP-based revenue streams to cover them, because I don't think there is a lot of money in that down the road (because the internet makes it impossible to practically enforce copyright). You'll have to create a need for an ongoing service, paid for in small units, to get people to part with their money. Software vendors like Adobe have already accepted this.

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking client-side encryption and decryption, and if you need to run operations on the server, utilizing homomorphic encryption practices. Is this not feasible or just naive?

How do you stop the cloud provider from accessing ram or cpu cache. At some point the data has to be decrypted for it to be used. And if decrypted on Amazon equipment, then Amazon could in theory gain access to it.

I did some googling and came to the conclusion that homomorphic encryption is not quite as supported in consumer hardware as I had believed. I didn't even think about the CPU cache. I guess this remains an unsolved problem. If Walmart's motivations are truly that Amazon might peek into vendor data, then it's a reasonable request after all.

Re: Wal-Mart is telling some vendors they can’t run applications on AWS

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was thinking client-side encryption and decryption, and if you need to run operations on the server, utilizing homomorphic encryption practices. Is this not feasible or just naive?

How do you stop the cloud provider from accessing ram or cpu cache. At some point the data has to be decrypted for it to be used. And if decrypted on Amazon equipment, then Amazon could in theory gain access to it.

They were saying all decryption would happen client side and the only operations done by the server would be ones where the server can operate on encrypted data and yield encrypted results. I suspect that the main sticking point in that plan would be that the current state of homomorphic encryption is fairly limited/slow, so if you need AWS for computation as opposed to storage, it's not a practical plan.
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