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Verizon is killing Tumblr’s fight for net neutrality

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Re: Verizon is killing Tumblr’s fight for net neutrality

#21

Post by fake-name »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #6
waterphone wrote: post #2

They're also forcing all adult-oriented content on Tumblr (which isn't limited to porn, although porn makes up the majority of their userbase) behind a logged-in-users-only wall, blocking it from non-Tumblr users and in turn, external search engine results. https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/tumblr-rolls-out-new-conte...

Oi, I suppose archiving Tumblr is this weekend's project.

https://github.com/fake-name/xA-Scraper already supports tumblr. Their API has annoying limits, though.

Note: It's a project of mine.

Re: Verizon is killing Tumblr’s fight for net neutrality

#22

Post by fake-name »

fiatjaf wrote: post #19
RangerScience wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to downvote you because of how intensely I disagree with everything you're saying, but you're saying it nicely so I won't. Instead - The major concern about losing NN is that instead of just paying for volume of data, I'll also be required to pay based on type and/or source of that data, and that the entities providing the data will also be required to pay based on type and/or destination. Do you think this co…

Thank you for not downvoting me. Free market would be part of my answer if I had one. I'm not well-informed enough to say much, but imagine you have a local link in a small rural town that only support some absolute number of packets or whatever: if you have one big consumer that is eating the major part of that every day, making the others miserable, isn't it reasonable to limit that consumer's bandwidth somehow? Th…

The problem with that statement is the internet is massively, massively, MASSIVELY NOT a free market in any way shape form or kind.

If there was actual competition for broadband internet access, maybe net neutrality would be superfluous. However, there is basically zero competition in the internet access market (at least in the US), so the hypothetical "free market" can't do shit.

> I don't understand what is the problem of that. In every other situation of life you pay for the "type" of the thing you're consuming. When you go to a restaurant you don't pay for volume of food, but for the types of food you're asking. There are indeed restaurants where you pay for mass of food, but you don't have all the expensive options available. I can see a world where you would have to pay a little more for Netflix and a little less for sshing to your VPS.

I don't pay for access to specific sites, I pay for access to a network.

The internet is, structurally, a buffet, in your restaurant analogy. Paid prioritization is basically going to an all-you-can-eat buffet, paying for entrance, only to discover that all entrees other then the rice are charged individually.

Re: Verizon is killing Tumblr’s fight for net neutrality

#23

Post by rhizome »

RangerScience wrote: post #16
rhizome wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general idea is "poison pill," but generally no, there's nothing the seller can do.

I mean, at the least, can't you make it a deal that you're OK walking away from if you find yourself in this kind of situation?

Sure, you could sell the biz outright and wash your hands of the whole thing once the check clears.

Re: Verizon is killing Tumblr’s fight for net neutrality

#24

Post by btym »

waterphone wrote: post #2

They're also forcing all adult-oriented content on Tumblr (which isn't limited to porn, although porn makes up the majority of their userbase) behind a logged-in-users-only wall, blocking it from non-Tumblr users and in turn, external search engine results. https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/tumblr-rolls-out-new-conte...

This is a direction they headed in shortly after Yahoo acquired them, it's not a new thing with the Verizon acquisition. Blogs marked "adult" and NSFW posts already won't show up in search engines[edit: I stand corrected], by default in searches on the website, or searches on the mobile app (even when logged in).

Re: Verizon is killing Tumblr’s fight for net neutrality

#25

Post by waterphone »

tptacek wrote: post #17
waterphone wrote: post #2

They're also forcing all adult-oriented content on Tumblr (which isn't limited to porn, although porn makes up the majority of their userbase) behind a logged-in-users-only wall, blocking it from non-Tumblr users and in turn, external search engine results. https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/tumblr-rolls-out-new-conte...

Porn makes up the majority of Tumblr's userbase?

Tumblr has a huge porn community, and always has. I don't have actual statistics, but it's huge. In general, people on tumblr might have a regular, personal blog, and then a side blog where they reblog and/or comment on/add captions to pornographic images, gifs and videos. In that sense, they can sort of curate porn that interests and appeals to them. The addition of this personal touch and intellectual component appeals to a lot of people, including a lot of women. But there are also various sex advice blogs, etc., which will be affected by this change as well, artists who do non-pornographic nude artwork, and potentially even various LGBT communities where sex can at times be a topic.

There are various levels of NSFW-flagging on Tumblr: users flagging their own site NSFW, Tumblr marking a blog NSFW and the user having no way to change that, or enough individual posts being flagged NSFW by users and AI that Tumblr decides to call the entire blog NSFW.

Re: Verizon is killing Tumblr’s fight for net neutrality

#26

Post by weberc2 »

RangerScience wrote: post #10
fiatjaf wrote: post #5

Net neutrality makes internet more expensive for everybody so Torrent and Netflix users can be subsidized. It looks right, but it is WRONG to "defend" it using law and force.

I want to downvote you because of how intensely I disagree with everything you're saying, but you're saying it nicely so I won't. Instead - The major concern about losing NN is that instead of just paying for volume of data, I'll also be required to pay based on type and/or source of that data, and that the entities providing the data will also be required to pay based on type and/or destination. Do you think this co…

I'm not opposed to NN, but your phrasing piqued my curiosity:

Why is it bad that ISPs charge us based on type/source of data? Should grocery stores charge us by volume (mass?) of food instead of by type/source/etc? If aggregating costs is indeed more moral, why should it be enforced by law (as opposed to the food example)?

Providing robust answers to these questions should strengthen the NN position.

Re: Verizon is killing Tumblr’s fight for net neutrality

#27

Post by yuhong »

I strongly suspect that an economic collapse is going to come less than a year after these sales (not just talking about Yahoo). That would be a good time for Verizon to begin selling off its utilities. AOL and Time Warner was another example that happened just before the bubble burst: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Warner#Merger_with_AOL I think this is partly because of how the economy is based on consumption and debt.

Re: Verizon is killing Tumblr’s fight for net neutrality

#28

Post by waterphone »

btym wrote: post #24
waterphone wrote: post #2

They're also forcing all adult-oriented content on Tumblr (which isn't limited to porn, although porn makes up the majority of their userbase) behind a logged-in-users-only wall, blocking it from non-Tumblr users and in turn, external search engine results. https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/20/tumblr-rolls-out-new-conte...

This is a direction they headed in shortly after Yahoo acquired them, it's not a new thing with the Verizon acquisition. Blogs marked "adult" and NSFW posts already won't show up in search engines[edit: I stand corrected], by default in searches on the website, or searches on the mobile app (even when logged in).

That is not true at all. All Tumblr blogs, including NSFW blogs, have always been viewable and indexable by external search engines through their public URL (blogname.tumblr.com) unless flagged as private/hidden (a choice of the blog owner). They have only been hidden from Tumblr's search engine if the user has their account set to not see adult content. You can verify this by searching for "tumblr porn" on Google. Five of the results on the first page are porn blogs on Tumblr.

Re: Verizon is killing Tumblr’s fight for net neutrality

#29

Post by weberc2 »

deanCommie wrote: post #8
fiatjaf wrote: post #5

Net neutrality makes internet more expensive for everybody so Torrent and Netflix users can be subsidized. It looks right, but it is WRONG to "defend" it using law and force.

Netflix pays it's bills like everyone else. Net Neutrality means that if you were to start a compelling competitor to Netflix, as long as your technology was sound enough, and you could keep up with the bandwidth bills, you would be able to offer the service to your customers without any subjective political negotiation with ISPs and entrenched market leaders.

This isn't a very good argument, since Comcast (or whoever) wants to charge Netflix more--a challenger wouldn't have to pay the Netflix premium. Maybe in some hypothetical scenario ISPs would charge incumbents less, but the real-world scenario is the opposite.

Re: Verizon is killing Tumblr’s fight for net neutrality

#30

Post by hristov »

jnordwick wrote: post #14
fiatjaf wrote: post #5

Net neutrality makes internet more expensive for everybody so Torrent and Netflix users can be subsidized. It looks right, but it is WRONG to "defend" it using law and force.

Upvoted because we need more diversity of opinion here.

If we need diversity of opinion, perhaps you could up-vote someone that believes that the earth is flat or black is white. There are out there some readily determinable facts, and it is perfectly fine for all of our opinions to be the same as it concerns those facts.

For example, almost everyone on earth will be of the opinion that fire is hotter than ice. Do we all suffer from group think? If someone believes that fire is cool, is he a brilliant free thinker, or just a moron that is about to get his hand burned?

It is well known and readily verifiable that net neutrality as defined by the previous FCC rules and as defined by the EFF allows for providers to charge more for people using more data. So no net neutrality would not require anyone to subsidize heavy data users.

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