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Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

nytimes.com

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Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#941

Post by albedoa »

CPLX wrote: post #931
RealityNow wrote: post #899

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll attest to the original comment by davidf18. Uber/Lyft have radically changed NYC for the better. Ride sharing services are significantly cheaper on the order of multiples, easier to use (eg. no more hailing, paying), and a hell of a lot more pleasant to ride in than taxis. Taxis were notoriously bad. They'd intentionally take slower routes to run up the meter, refuse passengers trying to go to locations the driv…

My point, which both of you appear to have missed, is that we're not actually talking about taxis at all. Taxis are things you hail by flagging them down on the street. They're still there, driving around in circles looking for you, just like before. You're just not using them any more. We're talking about something called livery cars which have existed forever and were also very widely used before Uber as well. You…

> Taxis are things you hail by flagging them down on the street. They're still there, driving around in circles looking for you, just like before. You're just not using them any more.

> the parent comment claiming they broke some kind of monopoly is just incorrect.

Are you saying taxis are not a monopoly? Or are you saying ride sharing apps did not break the taxi monopoly? If taxis were a monopoly, and if we are not using taxis now because of ride sharing apps, then it would seem ride sharing apps broke a monopoly.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#942

Post by 5thaccount »

Applejinx wrote: post #400
vit05 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you want a higher building, you should build strong columns" They will change the company's current culture. Slow down the pace of growth to try to adjust what is wrong. Probably focus on where they have margin to operate. This is clear in Gary ( Uber Co founder) text on Medium. "In a highly competitive market it is easy to become obsessed with growth, instead of taking the time to ensure you’re on the right path…

Their valuation is entirely and utterly founded on the idea of growth, and that there is no other path. They have absolutely no chance of turning around and telling Wall Street, of all people, that it's time to pause. Wall Street only loved them when they moved fast and broke everything there was to break. This is death. I mean, it's sensible talk, in another context it would be seen as enlightened, in a larger sense…

Wall street?

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#943

Post by obastani »

wgyn wrote: post #840
soneca wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why Lyft get none of the protests? I think you are mixing unrelated subjects. Uber final product is good for society. And other companies can provide the same product (in my city, São Paulo, there are other 3 good companies in the same space). Uber practices as a company are toxic for its employees and some of the toxicity leak to society. If such calculation was possible, I believe it would show a net positive im…

Actually such a calculation is possible (of consumer surplus), though perhaps some would argue against one or another part of the methodology. See: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/uber-economists-dream/ or http://www.nber.org/papers/w22627 . > So we found that in 2015, if you extrapolate to the whole U.S., we found that the overall consumer surplus added up to almost $7 billion. So people spent about $4 billion on Ub…

I believe most consumer industries have consumer surplus, since different customers are willing to pay different prices but the companies can only charge one price. This includes the taxi companies that Uber displaced. From reading the abstract, this paper does not calculate the additional consumer surplus generated by Uber beyond taxis.

Note that it doesn't follow that Uber would make more money simply by raising prices -- consumer surplus measures the amount Uber could make by charging each user their "true" value, but if Uber simply raised prices, then they would lose demand.

However, Uber is actually starting to use price discrimination (i.e., charge different users different prices based on their characteristics), which would eliminate consumer surplus [1].

[1] http://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/uber-s-ne...

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#944

Post by rottyguy »

CPLX wrote: post #931
RealityNow wrote: post #899

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll attest to the original comment by davidf18. Uber/Lyft have radically changed NYC for the better. Ride sharing services are significantly cheaper on the order of multiples, easier to use (eg. no more hailing, paying), and a hell of a lot more pleasant to ride in than taxis. Taxis were notoriously bad. They'd intentionally take slower routes to run up the meter, refuse passengers trying to go to locations the driv…

My point, which both of you appear to have missed, is that we're not actually talking about taxis at all. Taxis are things you hail by flagging them down on the street. They're still there, driving around in circles looking for you, just like before. You're just not using them any more. We're talking about something called livery cars which have existed forever and were also very widely used before Uber as well. You…

carmel didn't quite have the saturation of drivers as uber and so you don't have to "think ahead" to hitch a ride. Certainly the smart phone allowed animated maps to pacify the client but, also, for foreign travelers, didn't really need to speak a different language to convey source and destination (as well as credit card info). Plus all the tracking of the driver for peace of mind from a safety pov.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#945

Post by mrisoli »

bighi wrote: post #893
ajhurliman wrote: post #887

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same pushy, aggressive culture that made their some of their employees' lives awful also made it possible to get excellent service that reduces tons of drunk driving and generally improves people's lives. I really don't think they could've broke into the market by asking politely; it took some fire in the belly. However, the side effects are pretty devastating as well.

> The same pushy, aggressive culture that made their some of their employees' lives awful also made it possible to get excellent service that reduces tons of drunk driving and generally improves people's lives. So you're basically saying that stuff like treating women like shit was NECESSARY to provide a good "taxi" service?

Necessary is the wrong way to look at it, it was a consequence of the growth above all strategy.

They broke into markets with disregard for the law, often it backfired, often it didn't.

Allegedly(as it is being investigated) they also "stole" IP from Alphabet in an attempt to get ahead in the self-driving gold rush.

They repeatedly ignored several sexual harassment reports in order to protect someone who they referred to as a "high performer", in the name of growth, they could not afford to lose a high performer.

In the startup/VC/unicorn hype world growth is king, it comes before profit, revenue, employee wellbeing, customer satisfaction, business and work ethics.

Uber is not the first guilty of this, it's just the extreme case.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#946

Post by thegayngler »

CPLX wrote: post #770
davidf18 wrote: post #701

Much of the resistance to Uber (such as laws that were broken, protests) were from entrenched interests. At least where I live in NYC, Uber was dramatically improving customer value while providing innovations that reduced greenhouse gas. It provided completion for the entrenched Yellow Cab monopoly with its very high rates. Sometimes Uber would have higher rates but then you could take a Yellow Cab instead. The Yell…

This is factually incorrect. You're drawing a direct parallel between medallion taxis and Uber/Lyft rides, when they are not in fact the same at all. The outer boroughs, and every neighborhood in the city, has had car service options for decades, where you call a phone number (or often walk to a local storefront stand) to get a ride. This is the exact market segment that Uber has entered. Literally. There wasn't and…

I live in Harlem and even in Harlem it is hard to get a Taxi in Harlem. Cab drivers regularly would discriminate against minorities who needed cabs. Uber changed all of that. Now cabs are happy to see me when I flag one down. Car Service is usually pretty horrible. The cars are dirty on the inside and they will typically overcharge you for a trip. I made the mistake of paying 20 bucks for a trip that would've been a $7 cab fare and maybe an even cheaper with an Uber/Lyft.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#947

Post by [deleted] »

auggierose wrote: post #414
bunkat wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber doesn't make enough from fares to be profitable, they use investors' money to heavily subsidize them. Once the investor money runs out, Uber won't be able to pay drivers unless they jack up prices considerably. Once they are no longer price competitive, customers will move to other services. Turns out the car service business isn't very sticky at all (even the drivers work for multiple companies...). Drivers sta…

Come on, self driving cars was never a solution for Uber in the medium term. Cabs are in the midst of normal traffic, not even highway or anything. No way this will work good enough within the next 15 years

[deleted]

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#948

Post by mrisoli »

cthulha wrote: post #286
amrrs wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think Kalanick had much to do with it. He created the product, but it pretty much sold by itself -- similar to how Zuckerberg created Facebook, which sold by itself. Nope, This is wrong. Kalanick stood in front in the fight against the City officials and Taxi unions across the globe. Uber could've been done and dusted had it been left as a product to be sold by itself. Kalanick pushed Uber up high against t…

That might be a big deal in America, but it has not been part of Uber's appeal in Australia. Uber here is absolutely focused on the product experience. If anything, there's a proportion of people who supported local government rules and existing taxi services over the American interloper, a counter-balance to the anti-union and anti-municipal crowd. Please be mindful that the American experience does not translate gl…

Uber's appeal in most markets is exactly that, product and pricing. Speaking from a place where taxi service was terrible, inefficient, expensive, often corrupt and dangerous, Uber came in like a savior, when the government went after Uber people came to Uber's defense because now we can't go back to the way it was. To be fair I think that is the same as most places Uber has been to.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#949

Post by jsemrau »

soneca wrote: post #774
davidf18 wrote: post #773

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber is the largest player by far, so they are an easy target for frustrations and for incumbents. "Uber" is almost a generic term for a iPhone hailable vehicle. Generally, there is market competition for drivers. For example, Lyft for those drivers who are unhappy with Uber. You have stated that in your city, São Paulo, there are 3 good companies. If one company mistreats drivers, they would go to a competing firm a…

That's why I trust capitalism. Its dynamics allowed Uber to create a market, but also keep it in check for bad practices.

Societal norms forced him to resign. In other parts of this world with more patriarchal and authoritarian governments the leadership style might have been accepted.

Re: Uber Founder Travis Kalanick Resigns as C.E.O.

#950

Post by netcan »

geoelectric wrote: post #924
soneca wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why Lyft get none of the protests? I think you are mixing unrelated subjects. Uber final product is good for society. And other companies can provide the same product (in my city, São Paulo, there are other 3 good companies in the same space). Uber practices as a company are toxic for its employees and some of the toxicity leak to society. If such calculation was possible, I believe it would show a net positive im…

Once upon a time I heard a concept in motorcycling of the sacrificial jerk. This was when you deliberately rode behind someone who rode like an asshole. In turn they provided the upper boundary of your willingness to break the speed limit and for you to ride like an asshole, in hopes that they'd attract the ire of the police instead of you. Leaving any motorcycle safety conversations aside, I think Uber has been the…

I think you're right. The whole thing is complex, with labour law/norm implications, entrenched and concentrate interests in dozens of jurisdictions. Also uncynically ideological objectors. It was inevitably going to draw a lot of fire. I'm personally shocked at how far and wide uber have managed to spread.

Leaving aside broader questions, I think we can take a guess at what happens after Uber gets pulled over. Someone will take their place. What soneca said above makes reasonable sense.

OTOH, I'm not sure how useful this culture of rebuke and scolding really is. I think it's a bit extreme to wish for regular corporate collapse because of scandal. Reform needs to be an option here. Then again, maybe an occasional sacrificial lamb is good for making the other lambs ride slower. If it doesn't really matter who it is, may as well be the jerk.

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