Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uber rolls out in-app tipping

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 376 posts

Re: Uber rolls out in-app tipping

#351

Post by sattoshi »

danmaz74 wrote: post #326
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #183

It is sad that companies like Uber are being pressured into making these stupid decisions because of "social justice". For me the main benefit of using Uber (as well as all other on-demand services like Doordash, Caviar, etc.) was that everything is included and I don't have to think. Companies like Uber should be focused on building a product that consumers want and nothing else. These decisions are nothing more tha…

Social justice would require them to pay their drivers more, not to add tipping as an option.

We both know that paying more is not something Uber will do.

Their question was "What can we do about this without losing more money?"

Re: Uber rolls out in-app tipping

#352

Post by verelo »

lazerpants wrote: post #328
verelo wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah this is stupid. I'm not sure what I'm tipppng for anyway,"good driving" a "clean car"? These are the comments I can see being assigned to tips. Can I just, please, have a fixed priced service without frills to get me to and from places. It's not an experience I care enough about to optimize the time with my service operator, by bribing them to treat me better than others. I'm glad it's summer, less taxis and mor…

Assuming you're in NYC (based on the last sentence), you should check out Juno. They take a smaller percentage of revenue for the trip, and that makes me feel far better about not tipping.

Toronto :(

Re: Uber rolls out in-app tipping

#353

Post by cylinder »

cletus wrote: post #287
whiddershins wrote: post #184

I am so unhappy about this change. I tip well everywhere it is expected, restaurants, bars, cabs etc. I hate the system but it is factored in to the price and there's nothing I can do about it. What I loved about Uber when it started was there was no ambiguity. Prices were predictable, as were wait times. Zero cognitive overhead. No guilt or internal debate. Over time every little thing I loved about Uber was taken a…

+1 And Uber is... gone (from my phone). I hate tipping with a passion and despite Uber's questionable practices I was prepared to use it instead of Lyft based solely on tipping. So now I, as a user, have to concern myself with issues like: is the driver actually getting the tip? Or is Uber taking a cut? Does this mean Uber is paying the driver less because they can now get a tip? I don't want to have to concern mysel…

Well said. I hate all tipping. Hallmark of a stupid society. No surprise, DeBlasio pushed to require it in NYC. That guy is a complete and utter moron.

Re: Uber rolls out in-app tipping

#354

Post by kelnos »

rrradical wrote: post #298
kelnos wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's awesome that you enjoy that, but not everyone does. Many of us are introverted and/or shy, and forced interaction with a stranger is very draining. Claiming that this is a personal choice or frame of mind is incorrect. I would rather save my social/emotional energy for my actual friends, not people I'll likely never see again after a 10-minute ride.

Actually I am both introverted and shy! So to have these sorts of conversations was, for me, both a choice and a frame of mind. Your personal experience is just as valuable as mine, but claiming that my opinion is 'incorrect' is probably a bit over the top. :P

Not really. You framed it as if anyone can (and should?) do as you do, which is incorrect.

Re: Uber rolls out in-app tipping

#355

Post by kelnos »

tpeo wrote: post #275
kelnos wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if having the customers being able to punish unhelpful staff increases the odds of having returning customers, that would increase the likelihood of Uber drivers being better paid under competition. Doesn't the rating system approximate this outcome well enough, though? Being able to rate a driver, and see the overall rating before I get in the car is of huge value to me as a customer. Feeling obligated to tip is a…

Oh, I forgot about rating! It indeed should act in the same way as tipping, but not necessarily to the same degree. It's possible, for instance, that the change on a the driver's earnings conditional on any new rating is lower than the tip that he'd get from a new trip. Even more so as a driver's rating is the average rating from all his recent trips. If pulls a 5-star service for 499 customers and a 0-star service f…

Yes, I also believe that, in the US at least, the social pressure distorts the signal that the tip sends so it's meaningless. There is such a huge stigma associated with not tipping (or tipping poorly), that most people will tip a decent amount even for poor service.

Granted, the rating system is no better, even if for different reasons: since Uber/Lyft will deactivate drivers if their rating falls below what I'd consider to be a fairly high value (something above 4), most people (where I live, at least) give 5 stars unless there was something seriously wrong with the ride, so a mediocre driver will get the same rating as an exemplary driver.

Re: Uber rolls out in-app tipping

#356

Post by kelnos »

TheArcane wrote: post #248
kelnos wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will never tip with zero guilt. I suspect you're in the minority. Most people (in the US, anyway), when presented with an explicit option to tip, will do so out of a sense of obligation, or out of a desire not to be seen as a cheapskate -- even if the decision whether or not to tip is anonymous! Unfortunately that's how ingrained tipping culture is here.

This 'feeling' doesn't exist in Europe or a big part of Asia.

I'm well aware of that and acknowledged I was only talking about the US, which is where Uber is (at least initially) rolling out this mis-feature.

Re: Uber rolls out in-app tipping

#357

Post by kelnos »

yebyen wrote: post #338
creepydata wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can only assume that you have never worked in any industry in a customer service capacity Lol wut? Yes, I certainly have. I've worked no less than 4 customer service jobs. >Tipping is a totally normal thing, that you are free to engage in or abstain from. Only in the strictly legal sense, not the social sense. >If you are especially pleased with a service on a particular occasion, then you should tip. First off, t…

> you start with "you are free to engage in or abstain from [tips]" then say "you should tip." Which was is it? Completely optional or expected? You claim it's both. I think this was clear, until you removed the context. I think you should tip, I expect to leave a tip. I expect service employees to get a tip. I would tend to avoid service establishments altogether, if I thought I could not afford to leave a tip. But!…

So basically you're saying "tipping is optional, but if you don't, I'm going to think less of you as a person". Which is the same thing as saying "if you want to live in 'polite' society, tipping is required".

The problem is that when you see someone not tipping, you have no idea why. Perhaps that person received horrifyingly bad service. Perhaps that person is morally opposed to the practice. Or perhaps that person is just a cheapskate. You don't know, and putting that into your "mental calculus" is just you projecting your own feelings onto a situation for which you have very little factual information.

I'm not picking on you in particular; the majority of people in the US behave exactly the same way. And that's why tipping is mandatory, never optional.

Re: Uber rolls out in-app tipping

#358

Post by kelnos »

creepydata wrote: post #283
kelnos wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My rule of thumb with Lyft is that if the driver mentions giving them a good rating or tip, they get no tip. Directly asking for a tip (and thereby creating a guilt-ridden obligation) violates the implied social contract around tipping. (Think about other services where a tip is expected: it is rare for anyone to verbally mention a tip.) When I used to use Uber, my policy was that if a driver asked for a tip, I would…

Tip jars are never tasteful, putting a tip jar out is equivalent to panhandling, IMO. A business is a place for business transactions, not begging.

Eh, perhaps "tasteful" was the wrong word. I'm very anti-tipping overall (though will hold my nose and tip where appropriate, because that's just how things are), but I think, in a place where tips are expected, a tip jar is fine, as long as it's fairly unobtrusive and not in your face, and not verbally mentioned. Of course, until now, Uber was not a place where tipping was expected, so... sigh.

Re: Uber rolls out in-app tipping

#359

Post by yebyen »

kelnos wrote: post #357
yebyen wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you start with "you are free to engage in or abstain from [tips]" then say "you should tip." Which was is it? Completely optional or expected? You claim it's both. I think this was clear, until you removed the context. I think you should tip, I expect to leave a tip. I expect service employees to get a tip. I would tend to avoid service establishments altogether, if I thought I could not afford to leave a tip. But!…

So basically you're saying "tipping is optional, but if you don't, I'm going to think less of you as a person". Which is the same thing as saying "if you want to live in 'polite' society, tipping is required". The problem is that when you see someone not tipping, you have no idea why. Perhaps that person received horrifyingly bad service. Perhaps that person is morally opposed to the practice. Or perhaps that person…

> "mental calculus" is just you projecting your own feelings onto a situation for which you have very little factual information

That's exactly what mental calculus is. When I'm in a normal state of mind, "was the service any good" and "does this person have the money to tip" are also part of the mental calculus applied when I notice you didn't tip.

> I'm going to think less of you as a person

Maybe so. Vanishingly so (that's why it's calculus) depending on the scope of our interaction. If you are a person on the street who I noticed didn't tip the hot dog vendor, I'm likely not even doing this mental calculus at all, unless you've done something else to attract my attention.

If you're my boss, and I casually observe you not tipping on a regular basis, sure it's going to affect my opinion of you.

(If you are the owner of the company where I work and I notice you suddenly have a habit of not tipping, I'm likely to take it as a signal that maybe business is not so good!)

Re: Uber rolls out in-app tipping

#360

Post by TuringNYC »

snowwrestler wrote: post #316
TuringNYC wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I think it's a bummer to see developers who make way over the national median income complain they "don't want to think" about maybe giving a couple extra bucks to people who could use it. Numerous comments here are indeed suggesting "don't make me think" but to be fair they are also suggesting higher prices and wages for drivers. They are not saying "don't want to pay", they just want to not think about it and ra…

My perspective is that, if I think drivers should be paid more, tipping gives me the capability to make that real for my drivers. The model of Uber is in fact that the driver is an independent service provider to me , the rider. Uber is just the matchmaker. So if I want my driver to make more, I pay them more. I think the mindset of "I won't tip but at least I think Uber should pay their drivers more" is just rationa…

The commenters (including me) are not saying "Uber should pay their drivers more" they are actively suggesting increasing the price of the rides so more money goes to drivers (who make a % of the price.) They are advocating for higher prices overall so drivers get more money.

Also, higher prices are more fair. Ask anyone who waits tables and you learn pretty people make more in tips. It isnt fair. I dont know firsthand but I imagine someone with an accent might make less. Formulaic prices for rides seem to me a far more fair way to compensate drivers than the whims of individuals.

Post reply on HN