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Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

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Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#91
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That perception is _much_ older than Reagan. Back in 1866 we have: > No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. (Gideon Tucker), and it was hardly a brand-new notion then. The fact is that government, even democratic government, puts its needs and desires first. To the extent that this matches up with the needs and desires of the people it's governing, things are good. To the ex…

>No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. That's obscure and it's also being taken out of context [1]. What I said, was "widespread notion in the Republican party" I do mean contemporary, this is not an exhaustive search or maybe I'd go back to the Magna Carte. >The fact is that government, even democratic government, puts its needs and desires first. Really, it's a fact? You…

> I haven't heard of such a thing in democracies, that's rather fundamentally the opposite of what they're about.

For direct democracies with significant electoral control over what goes on, sure. For the thing that most "democratic" countries have, I disagree.

> Perhaps you're confused about the distinction between government and bureaucracy?

"Government" as understood in modern Western "democracies" is a combination of the bureaucracy and a certain number of elected officials.

You really haven't heard of elected officials putting their elected desires ahead of their nominal constituents'?

For the rest, as far as I can tell the main business of governing is in fact done by the bureaucracy in most Western countries, and bureaucratic departments tend to prioritize achievement of the goals they were set (often by themselves), without regard to how others would prioritize those goals. This is neither unheard of, unexpected, nor unusual. Everyone I've met who has thought about the problem at all, regardless of political persuasion, understands that this is a fundamental hazard of bureaucracy that needs to be addressed somehow. There are strong disagreements on how best to address it, of course.

> the idea that democracy doesn't help terribly much I think is deeply ignorant of when and why it fails

I think we agree on when and why it fails. The question is when it stops being democratic and along what dimensions.

For example, I consider the various statewide legislation passed recently in some states that forbids democratically-voted-for municipal wifi to be a failure of democracy in precisely the way you describe, and one that would be avoided by more-local devolution of power.

Now the problems you mention with discrimination are very real, and I have no problem with strongly centralized civil rights protections that are therefore uniformly applied to all citizens regardless of jurisdiction. There are certainly various other issues like this, where either there are significant externalities or a historical failure of local governance that ought to be the purview of more central government bodies.

This need for case-by-case analysis does mean that there are no easy solutions here, and I'm not claiming that there are. But I _am_ claiming that due to repeated failures in the current system, whether they were avoidable or not, there is fairly widespread perception that the central government is not to be trusted. And I don't think this perception really "dates back to Reagan" so much as that Reagan _expressed_ this rising perception. That is, Reagan was a consequence of the perception, not a cause of it.

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#92
post #50
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can trace the widespread notions in the Republican party that the government cannot ever do anything correctly, and should be feared when it tries, to this quote: The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. - Ronald Reagan No no, don't believe in auditing, and ethics, and holding officials accountable with voting, and when necessary prosecutions. Just be sca…

The Republican Party capitalizes on that perception but doesn't create it. America's governments are remarkably inept at doing even basic things. I just got back from Tokyo, where my 45 minute train ride from the airport arrived downtown within a minute of schedule. Meanwhile, the D.C. metro segment of my commute runs at best 20% over scheduled time. That's despite being one of the most expensive systems in the world…

The Republican party actively recruits incompetency and actively sabotages the system. It's a blatantly racist, classist, anti-democracy party at this point. The voter disenfranchisement they engage in is widespread. The nutty conspiracy theories about voter fraud, all involving brown people, is widespread. It's become the party that's questioning democracy now that democracy means people like them aren't winning elections, so they have to engage in the craziest methods of gerrymandering, voter registration purging, barriers to voter registration, and actively dissemination of factually incorrect information.

But when the time came to pay up for risk reduction in the Obamacare exchanges, Congress reneged and paid only 12% of what was owed to the insurers. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/im-a-former-health-insuranc...

They pull shenanigans like this all the time.

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#93
post #68
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Republican Party capitalizes on that perception but doesn't create it. America's governments are remarkably inept at doing even basic things. I just got back from Tokyo, where my 45 minute train ride from the airport arrived downtown within a minute of schedule. Meanwhile, the D.C. metro segment of my commute runs at best 20% over scheduled time. That's despite being one of the most expensive systems in the world…

The question to me is why is this the case? What makes American government particularly disfunctional and how can that be fixed? I don't really have any answers.

The middle class, and rural America have a unique mix of deep ignorance of reality, and a legitimate complaint. Legit: they have been screwed economically, the rich have by every single measure gotten astronomically more wealthy, and the middle class has at best stagnated but also has shrunk.

Deep ignorance and denial how flawed their culture is. They believe their taxes go disproportionately to cities, and the poor, and that illegal immigrants get free health care who they also subsidize. They believe gays, gay marriage, women, and non-Christians are not equal to straight white men. And they HATE that they are forced by courts and laws to treat them as equal.

They've become skeptical of democracy because it's not working in their favor. When courts were siding with them on religion in schools and part of the public discourse, meaning they get to metaphorically slap minority gays and women around, it was great for them. But as they're on the losing end of these civil rights cases, they're not liking it.

Neither the economics, nor democracy are working for them. So they're attacking the entire system, and Republican politicians are really taking advantage of that in a variation of the Nixon southern strategy:

https://www.thenation.com/article/exclusive-lee-atwaters-inf...

Rural folk don't seem to understand that 100 miles of distributed water and sewage, shared by not that many people, will cost a lot to maintain. Yet they get pissed that city folk are paying less for water and sewer, totally not understanding the concept of economies of scale. They have no idea that rural telephones have been subsidized by city folk for upwards of 100 years to make hundreds of miles of copper more affordable, basically neutralizing the fact they live in the boonies.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/19/americas-grea...

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#94
post #93
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question to me is why is this the case? What makes American government particularly disfunctional and how can that be fixed? I don't really have any answers.

The middle class, and rural America have a unique mix of deep ignorance of reality, and a legitimate complaint. Legit: they have been screwed economically, the rich have by every single measure gotten astronomically more wealthy, and the middle class has at best stagnated but also has shrunk. Deep ignorance and denial how flawed their culture is. They believe their taxes go disproportionately to cities, and the poor,…

I get all that and I agree with a lot of it. But that doesn't really explain, for example, why building a subway in NYC costs 7x per km what it costs in London or Paris.

http://www.amny.com/transit/subway-construction-in-nyc-costs...

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#95
post #94
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The middle class, and rural America have a unique mix of deep ignorance of reality, and a legitimate complaint. Legit: they have been screwed economically, the rich have by every single measure gotten astronomically more wealthy, and the middle class has at best stagnated but also has shrunk. Deep ignorance and denial how flawed their culture is. They believe their taxes go disproportionately to cities, and the poor,…

I get all that and I agree with a lot of it. But that doesn't really explain, for example, why building a subway in NYC costs 7x per km what it costs in London or Paris. http://www.amny.com/transit/subway-construction-in-nyc-costs...

America has taken local power to an extreme. There is just no pre-emption or exception to that local power which includes numerous fiefdoms within the county, the city, the utilities, a massive complex of competing federal, state, and city regulations. And then unions. To this day, if you do a trade show in Javits and take a computer power cord and plug it into a power strip, let alone BRING YOUR OWN power strip, you will get chewed out. A worker who sees it will chew you out, tell his buddy who will chew you out, tell his boss, and he his boss, and in sequence you will have a minimum of an hour of swearing, vitriol over how you're intentionally trying to fuck them over, cost them money, take their jobs, on and on. It is one of the worst union cities I've ever experienced.

Instead of protecting a right to work concept, they protect specific tasks. So even if that task becomes obsolete, you still have to pay that union guy with that specialty to stand around doing nothing.

If it weren't for all the people you'd disenfranchise from such a process, what you'd want is a business, neighborhood, city, state delegation to create a federal law that totally preempts all state and local laws, for each major project, to cut through the red tape. shrug

Oh and middle men. There's a middle man for everything. Especially in Manhattan, it's almost not hyperbole to say the doorman has an accountant, a lawyer, and a therapist. And anybody making more money than a doorman, has two or more of each of those.

Great city. And a shit hole.

EDIT: Also, I think the 2nd Ave project is a big fat classist waste of money. The Lexington Ave/Park Ave line is not that far away, Manhattan has already a very dense subway service compared to Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn.

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#96
post #86
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real question is not why the US seems to lag behind it's peers in how effective our government is. It is, how is the US able to be so much better than it's peers? You can't compare little state sized homogenous countries in Europe to the enormous, diverse landscape of the US. Compare the US to any other country of similar population and you will see a performance standout in almost all categories. Cherry picking…

I'm talking about countries like the France and Germany, etc. The U.S. continues to outperform those countries but I'm not sure you can chalk it up to the effectiveness of our government. I'd chalk it up to the U.S. having a head start from WWII and the major European powers being late to adopt market economies. Since then, they've caught up. For example, the U.S. had 50% higher labor productivity per hour of work th…

But again, both countries have less than a third of the US population. And no, I don't think our government gives us any special advantage. But my point is that you can't begin to compare the US to these fractionally sized countries that have the advantage of chasing off all the poor into other cheaper countries in Europe due to high cost of living.

Why are Bel-Air and Manhatten so rich? They are just doing so much better than the rest of the US. They barely have any poor! Must be their local governments and better market economies!

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#97
post #95
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get all that and I agree with a lot of it. But that doesn't really explain, for example, why building a subway in NYC costs 7x per km what it costs in London or Paris. http://www.amny.com/transit/subway-construction-in-nyc-costs...

America has taken local power to an extreme. There is just no pre-emption or exception to that local power which includes numerous fiefdoms within the county, the city, the utilities, a massive complex of competing federal, state, and city regulations. And then unions. To this day, if you do a trade show in Javits and take a computer power cord and plug it into a power strip, let alone BRING YOUR OWN power strip, you…

Kind of an aside, but the need for the 2nd Ave Subway isn't so much about having to walk a couple of blocks but that the 456 line has too many riders which leads to overcrowding and delays.

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#98
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That perception is _much_ older than Reagan. Back in 1866 we have: > No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. (Gideon Tucker), and it was hardly a brand-new notion then. The fact is that government, even democratic government, puts its needs and desires first. To the extent that this matches up with the needs and desires of the people it's governing, things are good. To the ex…

>No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. That's obscure and it's also being taken out of context [1]. What I said, was "widespread notion in the Republican party" I do mean contemporary, this is not an exhaustive search or maybe I'd go back to the Magna Carte. >The fact is that government, even democratic government, puts its needs and desires first. Really, it's a fact? You…

Oh, and as far as misalignment of government and citizens' desires in democracies...

You may want to read "Seeing Like a State" by James Scott, or https://samzdat.com/2017/05/22/man-as-a-rationalist-animal/ for an illustrative review if you don't want to read the whole book. Some of the examples in the book are from totalitarian regimes, but Brazil is a democracy and still ended up with some of the same failure modes, and the blog post gives a hypothetical but oft-repeated in practice example of a less-local (city-wide or larger) government trampling all over people from a particular part of the city, all with the best of intentions, because it thinks (possibly correctly!) that it can't accomplish those intentions without making its job easier by destroying the local communities.

Democratic government does help avoid excesses like mass deaths due to obtuse state action, of course, and this is a pretty darned good endorsement given the history of the 20th century. But it certainly doesn't eliminate obtuse state action.

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