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Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

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Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#191

Post by randommm »

socialcooling wrote: post #146
randommm wrote: post #65

It is obviously bogus that Foucault raised that issue in 1975. For example Erving Goffman introduced the term "Total Institution", which implies total surveillance already in 1961. Subsequently, there have been many public reports concerning the information society and the problem of data bases. For a legal assessment see Westin, Columbia Law Review 1966, pp. 1003ff.

It's not 'obvious'. The goal of that chart is not to be a perfect representation of history. It's to show 'greatest hits'. Foucault was a superstar-philosopher who was a regular TV guest. His panopticon analysis is way more widely know than Goffman's analysis (as much as I love Goffman).

Sure. But why this urge to rewrite history then? Just because Foucault is the grandfather or surveillance studies? Why forget all these older and more fruitful discourses?

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#192

Post by randommm »

socialcooling wrote: post #162
michaelcampbell wrote: post #58

How is this not the well documented Hawthorne Effect? That being watched digitally and with more ubiquity seems to be a distinction without a (real) difference. Calling something new does not make it so.

Social Cooling is related to a number of concepts, including Foucault's panopticon. But Social Cooling is about much more than "individuals change their behavior when observed"(the Hawthorne effect). That's only the starting point. Social cooling aims to cover the large scale societal consequences of that effect, and makes a comparison to Global Warming to point to the scale of the problem as well as the possible pat…

I sincerely doubt that anything that places the 'panopticon' in the center of the analysis will be able to point us the path that leads us out of the problem. The discourse of ubiquitous surveillance (or less political: observation) is a discourse of weakness, a discourse of lacking alternatives. The only normative proposal they make is: watch us less!

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#193

Post by golemotron »

api wrote: post #42
golemotron wrote: post #12

In one model of human behavior we all just become better people because we self-censor. I think that may be true for the first generation of people experiencing these effects in a society. Later generations will have more of a problem. The problem comes when they repress negative emotions and other status detractors because the cost of even being aware of them is too high. Then you have people who, in psychological t…

You just described the Victorian condition. I wonder if we're on the verge of a digital neo-Victorianism.

I think we are. I think societies exist over a spectrum. At one side you have societies that are loosely knit because people/families can take care of themselves with minimal social dependency on others. At the other end there are societies that where because of population density or economics, people need to convince each other of their social worthiness to participate. The latter become very competitive and the way that competition manifests is in rigid social mores along with the "outing" of people who don't conform.

What we're seeing now is technology connecting us more and more and amplifying the potential disqualifiers. There is more social freedom when people have more independence.

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#194

Post by golemotron »

socialcooling wrote: post #56
golemotron wrote: post #12

In one model of human behavior we all just become better people because we self-censor. I think that may be true for the first generation of people experiencing these effects in a society. Later generations will have more of a problem. The problem comes when they repress negative emotions and other status detractors because the cost of even being aware of them is too high. Then you have people who, in psychological t…

Author here: I also worry about Learned Helplessness, where we believe that there is nothing we can do about it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_helplessness In Silicon Valley the Technological Determinist view that technology has it's own will, that it is some unstoppable force, is the dominant but dangerous viewpoint. That idea is only creating a self-fulfilling prophesy. The reality is that we as a society h…

I agree. We need to be more conscious of the Precautionary Principle, but having said that it is easy to see how technological determinism is an accurate view regardless of whether we like it or not. As an example, no one quite knew how much cars, television, or the ready availability of cameras on cellphones would impact society. But consumers were so excited by the upsides that there couldn't ever be debate about any downsides or call for regulatory frameworks until the downsides manifested themselves.

The trick that we use is to hook the consumer faster than law can react. Uber did this successfully. Segway flubbed it. With Segway Kamen wanted a big rollout. It attracted attention and municipalities started passing legislation restricting Segways before they were off the assembly line.

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#195

Post by robotbikes »

mncharity wrote: post #158
qwtel wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your web sentiment analysis score does not meet the threshold for hire except you would be lucky if one well-meaning employee would tell you the above sentence off the record in violation of every contract he/she singed with ProfitCorp. more likely, your life would be a mysterious series of surprise rejections with no or spurious reasons, the latter being especially insidious, since it would lead you to to believe…

Over the winter, I used a Trader Joe's padded/insulated bag for my laptop. Partially open, because of a broken zipper. It took me a while to realize that the uptick in friendly conversations with drugstore workers, and the onset of being stalked in my local supermarket, was likely because I now matched some shoplifting profile. It's been a useful reminder of privilege. Though it seemed unfortunate to be wasting peopl…

Couldn't the retained state of friendly conversations just be based upon the fact that you have interacted socially with the people there, possibly induced by your broken laptop bag and thus there is a more open process of communication and friendliness vs. some kind of nefarious surveillance policy.

Also there are all kinds of unconscious social biases that can induce people to talk to us. Perhaps you know expect to be interacted with and thus this orientates you towards social interactions.

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#196

Post by wu-ikkyu »

elefanten wrote: post #176
wu-ikkyu wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It is planning what it calls a “social-credit system”. This aims to score not only the financial creditworthiness of citizens, as happens everywhere, but also their social and possibly political behaviour. This already exists across the world in the form of credit rating agencies and social media. It's merely an issue of data integration

Except its: 1. Centrally regulated and collected 2. Mandatory 3. Explicitly includes matters of ideology and opinion So, it's hardly comparable to what is extant under the surface in other countries.

1. So is Facebook and the credit rating agencies in the US

2. No it's not, it was unsuccessfully tested in a single county

3. So do the judgments of employers on whether or not to hire or fire someone based on publicly expressed political ideology

It may make us feel better to point the finger over there to distract from the parallels of what is going on locally but doing so is hardly practical.

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#197

Post by voidhorse »

snowcrshd wrote: post #180
voidhorse wrote: post #11

I think the creator may be better off conducting a through philosophical investigation in efforts of pinning down the concept. You would be much better off giving full citations to Foucault and Deleuze, and full analysis into the Snowden incident and the fallout rather than a sort of half nod to, what I think, are the foundation beams of this concept. This page kind of assumes the audience is already willing to admit…

That essay sounds really interesting. How much background knowledge would I need to take advantage of it? I'm utterly ignorant of such matters, but I'm trying figure out how to go about learning this.

Unfortunately you will need some philosophical and historical background to fully comprehend the essay--Horkheimer writes, for instance, about the "Kantian Hope" which is a centerpiece of the short text--he also draws quite a bit on Nietzsche and some of his own previous work with Adorno. I'd say Kant and Nietzsche are the most important fellas to understand as far as comprehension of this essay is concerned. Chances are you'll still be able to get the gist of what Horkheimer is trying to say even if you don't have any background in the history of philosophy, but you'll definitely understand the essay better if you first read a summary of the developments and history of philosophy from about Plato to Nietzsche (essentially the major figures of philosophy up until 1900).

Alternatively, you can just dive in and look up what you don't understand as you read.

The Stanford encyclopedia of philosophy is a great resource for that sort of thing: https://plato.stanford.edu/

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#199

Post by snowcrshd »

voidhorse wrote: post #197
snowcrshd wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That essay sounds really interesting. How much background knowledge would I need to take advantage of it? I'm utterly ignorant of such matters, but I'm trying figure out how to go about learning this.

Unfortunately you will need some philosophical and historical background to fully comprehend the essay--Horkheimer writes, for instance, about the "Kantian Hope" which is a centerpiece of the short text--he also draws quite a bit on Nietzsche and some of his own previous work with Adorno. I'd say Kant and Nietzsche are the most important fellas to understand as far as comprehension of this essay is concerned. Chances…

Thank you for the thorough response!

I'm still starting my learning of philosophy, going through Plato's works.

I'm keep Kant and Nietzsche in mind :)

PS: That Stanford page is awesome.

Re: Social Cooling – How big data is increasing pressure to conform

#200

Post by voidhorse »

snowcrshd wrote: post #199
voidhorse wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately you will need some philosophical and historical background to fully comprehend the essay--Horkheimer writes, for instance, about the "Kantian Hope" which is a centerpiece of the short text--he also draws quite a bit on Nietzsche and some of his own previous work with Adorno. I'd say Kant and Nietzsche are the most important fellas to understand as far as comprehension of this essay is concerned. Chances…

Thank you for the thorough response! I'm still starting my learning of philosophy, going through Plato's works. I'm keep Kant and Nietzsche in mind :) PS: That Stanford page is awesome.

No problem. I'm also always looking to keep my philosophical muscles fresh, so if you ever want to chat about philosophy in general feel free to shoot me an email. My email is on my HN profile.
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