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Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

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Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#231
post #177
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think for most cities, locks and lights are unavoidable costs, if you want to stay safe and still have your bike be where you left it... Some would argue a helmet should be too, but experienced cyclists know better than to open that debate up! Unless you live somewhere with a great climate, foul weather clothing inevitably ends up needing bought if you intend to commute all year round by bike.

I think you underestimate how much a bike is more like an umbrella or coat to us than it is a transportation vehicle. But I do agree that in places where it's more like the latter, your comment applies. The nearest equivalent I can think of in Holland is the 'scooter' (moped?). That said, you're now making me curious to what degree this applies to other cities, even just cities that are known to be bike-friendly. In…

I've visited Amsterdam on several occasions, and I am always amazed at the low prices you guys pay for bike stuff, especially compared to the US/UK prices I am most familiar with. I found it similarly cheap in Copenhagen as well - I guess greater demand helps drive prices down.

The style of bikes that are popular in Amsterdam and other relatively flat European cities often aren't that commonly found in many other countries in my experience - the incredibly popular in Holland 'coaster' brake design (where you stop pedaling/pedal backwards to brake) is borderline dangerous on very steep hills, but works great in flat areas, making it pretty uniquely suited to cities like Amsterdam. Similarly, you guys rarely need to bother with gears, or need so few you can use much simpler to maintain hub gear systems rather than finicky external derailleurs. I've almost never seen a new bike sold in the UK with coaster brakes, largely due to safety on hills. Similarly, it's pretty rare to see a coaster brake equipped bike in the US. I sure wouldn't want to try stopping at the bottom of a long 30% grade in San Francisco on coasters...

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#232
post #47

> If anything, having a tatty, battered old > bike affords more status as it attests to > a long and lasting love. As an Amsterdam resident: What a romantic characterization of our high crime rates! Yes, the reason I still ride a shitty old beater of a bike is definitely my long lasting love for that piece of shit, it's not because I know that if I buy anything fancy I'm going to have to never take my eyes off of it,…

Can anyone explain why police don't do a huge crackdown on bike theft in Amsterdam? I heard repeatedly when I was there about how bad the theft is. Is there something stopping cops from putting out a dozen fancy bikes without locks every day and arresting everyone who grabs one and rides off? Is the legality of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment different in the Netherlands? Because it seems like a relatively s…

They do decoy bikes, e.g. here's a news article about a thief being caught by police stealing a decoy bike for the second time in 6 months published just 3 days ago (in Dutch, but it Google Translates):

http://www.nhnieuws.nl/nieuws/207931/Fietsendief-in-Amsterda...

The problem is that the police have other stuff to do, and they might as well be pissing in the wind with the amount of bike theft here. They could do a huge crackdown, but that's unsustainable and after the crackdown we'll be right back to the same theft rate.

Interestingly there was a case this year (currently going through appeals) where a judge ruled that a man stealing a bicycle in a residential neighborhood should be found not guilty because the police had created the circumstances of the bike's theft:

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/01/decoy-bikes-sh...

It's unclear what that means for bicycle entrapment in general, but an article in Parool (again, in Dutch) suggested that this may have implications for the methods of the Amsterdam police depending on how it goes:

http://www.parool.nl/parool/nl/4/AMSTERDAM/article/detail/42...

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#233
post #76

I've always enjoyed my cycling trips when I've been in the Netherlands - its just so calming and relaxing, and good for me - but without much stress. There aren't many hills, its for the most part very safe and bicyclists have a place in the transit system that feels very comfortable and, indeed 'right'. There really is something quite right about the feeling - you are getting fit, and going somewhere, and .. well, i…

I agree completely. I didn't even ride a bicycle there (I only learned how to ride recently), yet simply walking the streets of Amsterdam felt so right that I've decided to move there at least for a year. A decently-sized city without many cars is fantastic.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#234
post #94
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> essential accessories - clothing, panniers, lights, helmets, locks, new tires and tubes, CO2 cartridges, chains, cassettes, lubricant, wheels (eventually), brake pads/disks. Mine came with a lock and lights. Tires last 10 years and aren't that expensive. Pumping tires has to happen a few times a year, come on. Never replaced a chain before the rest of the bike was due for replacement anyway. Never heard of anyone r…

You've edited my post rather substantially to suit your own end in your "quote" - at no point does my original post describe that entire list as essential - I merely gave examples of the kind of things that _can_ need maintenance. > Tires last 10 years and aren't that expensive > New brake pads aren't expensive and they last years Ride 20 miles a day and lifespans like these are nigh on impossible. Especially if you…

My impression is that Dutch city bikes are designed to not need much maintenance. They have hub gears so no derailleurs or cassettes. They have chain guards and internal gears mean less need for lubrication. They have drum brakes so no brake pads.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#235

Just came back from a week in Netherlands and stayed in Amsterdam. What a cool place to hang out and take in the sights. Cycling there is huge indeed. The big difference I noticed from Canada was the dedicated infrastructure they have in place. Dedicated cycling lanes everywhere, it's a proper form of transportation. As a tourist, this was weird, I nearly got mowed down a few times but because I was in the wrong and…

> As a tourist, this was weird, I nearly got mowed down a few times but because I was in the wrong and not paying attention. You quickly adapt and realized bike lanes are just as important to watch out for as vehicle lanes.

You can also get mowed down in pedestrian area, on the pavement by impatient cyclist that don't like traffic jams and custom courtesy like stopping to let you cross a zebra crossing is non-existent with cyclists.

A definitive win for the environment, but terribly stressful with a pregnant woman or a toddler. There is just nowhere safe at all, even between the stall of art market.

Bicycles were the biggest disappointment of visiting Amsterdam.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#236
post #47

> If anything, having a tatty, battered old > bike affords more status as it attests to > a long and lasting love. As an Amsterdam resident: What a romantic characterization of our high crime rates! Yes, the reason I still ride a shitty old beater of a bike is definitely my long lasting love for that piece of shit, it's not because I know that if I buy anything fancy I'm going to have to never take my eyes off of it,…

Don't you folks have chorbazar's [1,2]? Virtually every big city in India has one. Your stuff gets stolen, you go to the chor bazar, it'll be on sale, buy it back after some haggling over price.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chor_Bazaar

[2] http://www.indiatimes.com/culture/who-we-are/14-reasons-you-...

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20km is ~6 miles each way. Unless there are significant obstacles (hills, many stoplights, etc), an hour to go 6 miles seems excessive.

I read it as 20km each way, 40km total. I agree that a 10km each way trip is far more reasonable. In fact that's only slightly longer than my 5 mile bike commute, and I bet they have fewer 90F (32c) and 80% humidity days than we do here.

I read it that way, but then, that would mean there is no school within 20 km, so an empty space where schools around are separated by 40 km. I think there are very few possible spaces like that in Netherlands, or in most Western Europe. Or then we are talking about high-schools, which are more sparse.

So I guess 2x10 km is the most likely answer. And that's already a lot.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm hoping for a possible future in which there is massive rezoning in the U.S. so that mixed neighborhoods (residential, business, etc) within reason, like bodegas and offices and apartments and row houses together, not cement plants next to kindergartens, are universal. I just bloody hate driving and the less I have to do it the happier I am. Would rather be outside getting exercise.

The Japanese have the perfect answer. They don't zone by use. They zone by nuisance level. You can build whatever you want in the cement-plant-district. But you have to deal with having that kind of nuisance nearby. You can also build whatever you want in the no-nuisance district. But you can't impose any kind of nuisnace.

Do you have a source for that? According to this article[1] which is summarizing an official Japanese zoning document [2] they have 12 well-defined zones.

They're overall more relaxed about mixed-use zoning, but they do have exclusively industrial zones, and exclusively residential (with small shops & schools) zones.

1. http://urbankchoze.blogspot.nl/2014/04/japanese-zoning.html

2. http://www.mlit.go.jp/common/000234477.pdf

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea for Amsterdam is to make the bike look unique, not always unnatractive, the more homogenous looking and mechanically sound, the more attractive to thieves. Amsterdam is a smalll place so having a fluro green bike with a number plate of your name welded to the frame is a good deterrent.

Take care with welding - not every material likes welding, and especially not home-made welding without proper stress relief. Drilling for rivets is also dangerous when done incorrectly. You do not want to be riding at full steam when the frame cracks, it's nasty.

[deleted]

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#240
post #47

> If anything, having a tatty, battered old > bike affords more status as it attests to > a long and lasting love. As an Amsterdam resident: What a romantic characterization of our high crime rates! Yes, the reason I still ride a shitty old beater of a bike is definitely my long lasting love for that piece of shit, it's not because I know that if I buy anything fancy I'm going to have to never take my eyes off of it,…

Can anyone explain why police don't do a huge crackdown on bike theft in Amsterdam? I heard repeatedly when I was there about how bad the theft is. Is there something stopping cops from putting out a dozen fancy bikes without locks every day and arresting everyone who grabs one and rides off? Is the legality of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment different in the Netherlands? Because it seems like a relatively s…

What would you do with the bike thieves you catch? Fines mean nothing to the career petty criminals, and jailing people for petty theft leads to hopeless US style mass incarceration.
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