Flash poll; how many of you have been homeless? How many for an extended period (more than 6mo)?
A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews
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Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews
#42Flash poll; how many of you have been homeless? How many for an extended period (more than 6mo)?
I was homeless twice in my life, both times for more than 6mo. The entire time I was a “knowledge worker” employed in hardware and software.
Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews
#43Sometimes it seems to me that histories like this put the weight of leaving poverty in the individuals himselves rather than the government social services, enforcing the myth that poor people is people that chooses to.
I see it as somewhere in-between.
There's probably some kind of ideal form of government intervention that will take the most out of poverty; and then there's probably some form of minimalistic form of humane intervention for the hopeless.
Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews
#44Sometimes it seems to me that histories like this put the weight of leaving poverty in the individuals himselves rather than the government social services, enforcing the myth that poor people is people that chooses to.
I don't believe that people "choose" to be poor, and there is an overwhelming societal component at play. But I can't say that the individual and their choices don't matter. He admits he had problems with drugs, and that his life spiraled out of control. Do I think we should have treatment programs so it doesn't get this bad? Yes, of course. But some people don't think there's a problem, or need help until they hit b…
And the flip side of the coin is that the government needs to be willing to provide services, presumably because the government sees a correlation between choosing to help yourself, subsequently finding a resource that can help, using that resource to get help, and finally being helped and back on your feet, where the cost to provide sufficient help is less than the opportunity cost of having another person on the skids.
Everywhere has homeless. But places that offer little help have a lot more.
Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews
#45Sometimes it seems to me that histories like this put the weight of leaving poverty in the individuals himselves rather than the government social services, enforcing the myth that poor people is people that chooses to.
It's really odd to me that people read an article like this and jump to the assumption that the article is putting the responsibility for alleviating poverty solely on the poor. When you actually read the article, it doesn't imply anything of the sort (the closest I can come is the fact that the title has "instead of begging" at the end, but even that is stretching a bit). Particularly when the source is an organizat…
Probably it's me, because as you said there is nothing in the article that suggest a general idea like the one I exposed; probably I'm too pesimmistic.
It's always nice (and interesting) to see how different people interpret and feel histories differently.
Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess that the mentally ill would have suffered an extreme ostracism and violence from the population, but I also think that some of the conditions that lead to homelessness (drugs, alcohol, financial problems) are very recent.
Yeah, it depends on the type of mental illness, I think. Addiction is obviously harder without easy access to the chemical/activity. But even for something like depression, many of the behaviors that are known to help would be more prevalent/mandatory in small, close-knit, more primitive societies. For example, you'd probably be getting tons of physical exercise, getting good sleep without artificial light, have freq…
I agree, absence of isolation in primitive societies can be a huge advantage.
Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews
#47This is a great story. But...someone who has the intelligence and work ethic to do this probably wasn't going to be homeless for long. Honestly, there are probably millions of people who pull themselves together like this - it's just they end up working regular jobs like maintenance work or burger flipping that aren't as inspirational. The problem with stories like this is they conflate two problems: (1) being down o…
someone who has the intelligence and work ethic to do this probably wasn't going to be homeless for long. And capacity. Many people on the street have serious health problems or other obstacles to productivity. I lack neither intelligence nor a work ethic, but I do have health problems. I have been homeless 5.5 years, though I blog, do freelance work, etc. Edit: You also need opportunity. Being homeless can be a huge…
>I have been homeless 5.5 years
This is a huge personal revelation. I have happened to be in touch with the parent poster via HN and they are simply an intelligent, thoughtful, person with important and good opinions on whatever topics they write about.
I hope you resolve your issues with housing soon. As you write, you have a lot of capacity for high-level work.
Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews
#48This is a great story. But...someone who has the intelligence and work ethic to do this probably wasn't going to be homeless for long. Honestly, there are probably millions of people who pull themselves together like this - it's just they end up working regular jobs like maintenance work or burger flipping that aren't as inspirational. The problem with stories like this is they conflate two problems: (1) being down o…
> Problem (2) however is the much bigger problem. Unfortunately, what this guy did is only marginally useful in coming up with solutions to that problem.
What this guy did was "Anything but what was keeping him down."
And he's very fortunate that he was able to overcome his particular problem, addiction, on his own.
The key to problem 2 is to a) Intervene with yourself, or b) Get help to intervene with yourself, or c) Be fortunate that a kind soul or community intervenes on your behalf.
b) and especially c) are tough in today's developed, "don't look at them" world.
Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews
#49[deleted]
Re: A homeless man who turned his life around by offering book reviews
#50This is a great story. But...someone who has the intelligence and work ethic to do this probably wasn't going to be homeless for long. Honestly, there are probably millions of people who pull themselves together like this - it's just they end up working regular jobs like maintenance work or burger flipping that aren't as inspirational. The problem with stories like this is they conflate two problems: (1) being down o…
This is a critical point, thanks for making it. The mythology that all failure is a function of bad work ethic, etc., is a huge barrier to meaningful progress on poverty alleviation. Anyone interested in reading more on this topic, I rec. this book. It's about people who are near-homeless, not fully homeless, but it's one of the best things I've read on the topic. The author lived with the subjects for several years…
I doubt anyone thinks all failure is a result of bad work ethic. Of course much is due to mental illness, disability, etc.
But a huge proportion of poverty stems from bad work ethic.
Some of the places in the USA with the highest underemployment are also places where employers are offering decent unskilled jobs and can't find enough workers. The worker gets hired, shows up for a few days, and then starts just not coming to work, randomly. Or he comes in later and later each day, arriving hours late. Or he takes breaks that extend to hours long.
Work ethic is a huge part of the problem, and the constant denial that many poor people (not all) do have everything they need to lift themselves up, and simply choose not to do so, is itself a denial of their human agency and ensures that the policy/cultural changes that could lead them out of poverty are not made. Ultimately, it's staggeringly harmful to them.
In the end the wealthy and the poor both have to make changes to end poverty. It's a team effort. It's not up to a rich savior class to come and fix the dirty people from the outside.
(I'm convinced that many wealthy people don't understand this because they really can't imagine what a true lack of worth ethic looks like; they've just never been at close range with it for an extended period of time and had to face up to the fact that it is a real thing and it is harmful. Ultimately that's a consequence of the closed social bubbles we live in now; we just don't know the other classes because we're so isolated from them.)