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Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

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Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#141

Post by nisse72 »

jlg23 wrote: post #117
ramy_d wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get it - that competition is of bike thefts for unguarded and _unlocked_ bikes. Surely it means nothing. Do people not buy bike locks in those regions? Is it typical for a 13mm+ Ulock in Amsterdam to get broken?

> Is it typical for a 13mm+ Ulock in Amsterdam to get broken? Yes. One thing that still works is to get two different high-end locks and to always use both. Most thieves specialize in one lock only. But I'd still not leave a decent bike outside over night.

I would imagine that an angle grinder works equally well with all locks regardless of brand.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#142

Post by rhinoceraptor »

giobox wrote: post #134
rhinoceraptor wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true for finicky road bikes with skinny chains and tires, but a single speed/internally geared bike with a coaster brake and wide tires is pretty much maintenance free. People in the US obsess about how many gears they have, but a bike with a straight chainline is just so much simpler and more reliable.

I completely agree, but not all of us have the legs for single speed in the places we live - 20% inclines and a single speed with something like the typical 46/17 style ratio is not going to work for a lot of riders.

Yep, I ride 48:17 (fixed gear, too) but I would never do that without clipless pedals or pedal straps.

AFAIK, most Dutch bikes are internally/hub geared with chain cases to protect it from the elements. It's a shame hub gears aren't more popular in the US.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#143

Post by erikpukinskis »

mercer wrote: post #106
ocschwar wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Japanese have the perfect answer. They don't zone by use. They zone by nuisance level. You can build whatever you want in the cement-plant-district. But you have to deal with having that kind of nuisance nearby. You can also build whatever you want in the no-nuisance district. But you can't impose any kind of nuisnace.

How do they deal with the tension of having bars/clubs in residential areas? Or do these areas just not exist in Japan?

If you want silence at home, move to the country. The notion that urban spaces should be free of human voices at any hour is ludicrous. No loud music after midnight is reasonable, but other than that if you can't sleep install better insulation. No one is forcing you to live in the city.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#144

Post by cr0sh »

LeonM wrote: post #108
vondur wrote: post #20

Aren't cars really expensive to purchase in the Netherlands? Also, pushing biking at the expense of cars certainly helps. People in the US would go nuts if the Government starting reducing car lanes to install dedicated bike lanes.

Depends on your definition of "really" expensive, but as a Dutch citizen I can tell you that: - On average new cars are about twice as expensive compared to the USA, mostly due to tax. (A Mustang GT starts at 119.500 EUR, about 133k USD). - Insurance is mandatory - For each car you own you pay a monthly road tax (between 30-100 euro per month, depending on the car) - fuel prices are also quite high (~6,5USD per US ga…

A basic Mustang GT is only about 40k USD - so you're talking about 3-4x as expensive...?

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#145

Post by Vinnl »

giobox wrote: post #58
TulliusCicero wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you don't live in a bike friendly country.

None of these costs have anything to do with location. It was the same when I lived in Copenhagen - arguably doesn't get bike friendlier than that!

One thing I (a Dutchman) noticed while in Copenhagen is that all the bicycles I saw were quite fancy! I spend less on bikes than I do on my shoes, and I don't spend a lot on shoes. Of course, you can splurge, but it's very doable to do what I do: buy a second-hand bike for about €50 every two years, and now and then spend a few Euro's on a repair kit to fix a flat tyre. (Or a few more to have someone do it.)

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#146

Post by jlg23 »

giobox wrote: post #50
htaunay wrote: post #9

Why wouldn't it be? It's faster than the tram; a bike is cheap and cycling is free; its way easier to park than a car; its healthy; there are cycle paths everywhere (inside and between cities); and everyone else does it, so you usually have company.

While cycling is obviously much, much cheaper than a car, I'd argue its a myth to say it's 'free'. Start commuting a _reasonable_ distance regularly by bike and you are going to incur running costs, as well as often not insignificant investment in essential accessories you might need depending on where you live - clothing, panniers, lights, helmets, locks... There's a fair amount of things on a bike that, like many o…

I spent less than 1k on a bicycle that I rode for about 15.000 km within the first 18 months within the city only. It was always serviced in a shop.

That makes 6ct/km (1.6 if we don't consider the bike itself) at what is still the early stage of a bicycle's lifetime.

I think that qualifies as virtually "free".

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#147

Post by chmod775 »

ramy_d wrote: post #93
chrisseaton wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Surely it means nothing Well I guess it means that you can't leave your bike unlocked in parts of Amsterdam, which is a shame.

You can't leave your bike unlocked anywhere. Ever. At anytime. How come this isn't the initial reasoning? In fact, you can't leave anything unattended or not secured. This goes for cars, bikes, luggage, homes, i don't know what else.

There's still quite a few places on this earth where people don't even bother to lock their front doors, or don't worry about leaving their bike lying around somewhere unsecured.

What you said is mostly for true for major cities though.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#148

Post by ashark »

InitialLastName wrote: post #140
ashark wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, more to the point they took their bound-to-be-good-students-on-average children to the suburbs. If you do it right ( i.e. you don't make a bad choice and get ripped off) you're buying your kids' peers more than anything else by paying to live in more affluent districts or (more directly) by paying private school tuition. This is why pouring money into poor districts rarely does much to educational quality—the m…

That's a well-put perspective. ... however... I can't even picture the political shitstorm that would happen if someone suggested (openly) segregating schools by parental income and education level.

Oh, I know it's not politically feasible and is fairly horrible. It's damning of our current system, though, that it's de facto very nearly the same thing and also incredibly expensive/stressful.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#149

Post by mercer »

chrismealy wrote: post #111

I had watched about a million Dutch cycling videos before I went to the Netherlands, but it's even better than the videos make it out. Cycling in the Netherlands is safe, easy, and fun. I rode around with a four-year-old and an almost-two-year-old in a cargo bike and not for a second felt any stress or fear (and my kids absolutely loved it as well, fresh air and no carseats). I can't go half a mile in Seattle without…

Cycling in Amsterdam is fun in a sort of stressy rollercoastery way. Utrecht is even worse.

If you're in the area though, I can highly recommend taking one of the many bike routes, in particular one that leads to the dunes near Amersfoort. From Amsterdam/Utrecht it's a perfect distance for a day trip and really beautiful.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#150

Post by dragonwriter »

InitialLastName wrote: post #99
ashark wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just look at any suburbs: the inhabitants clearly disagree with me. Some of us just have kids and have noticed that all the city housing is either incredibly expensive or in slums, and the schools in the city proper are dangerous and terrible so we'd also have to pay for private school[0]. And we're not made of money. I'd much rather live in the city—I hate the car-centric lifestyle—but living there if I have enoug…

That's a chicken-and-egg problem too... inner-city schools suck because everyone with money took their taxes to the suburbs (for better schools).

> That's a chicken-and-egg problem too... inner-city schools suck because everyone with money took their taxes to the suburbs (for better schools).

Well, yes, but more to the point inner city schools suck in outcome terms because outcomes are driven more by parental educational attainment and other non-school factors (income is mostly irrelevant except that it correlated with parental education, and tax base is irrelevant as shown by the fact thst the problem is not particularly attenuated in states that equalize per pupil spending statewide, so that taking your tax money elsewhere has only a very weak effect on school funding) than by anything schools do, and no one has found (and most of the efforts of standardizing what schools do in the expectations of consistent outcomes detracts from the search for) interventions that address deficiencies in this area.

To fix inner city (or “poor rural” or other “problem” schools) you have to either first fix or, at least, find interventions that break the cyclical nature of the underlying social inequalities that actually cause the poor outcomes.

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