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Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

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Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#121

Post by Nanite »

ramy_d wrote: post #81
avar wrote: post #47

> If anything, having a tatty, battered old > bike affords more status as it attests to > a long and lasting love. As an Amsterdam resident: What a romantic characterization of our high crime rates! Yes, the reason I still ride a shitty old beater of a bike is definitely my long lasting love for that piece of shit, it's not because I know that if I buy anything fancy I'm going to have to never take my eyes off of it,…

I don't get it - that competition is of bike thefts for unguarded and _unlocked_ bikes. Surely it means nothing. Do people not buy bike locks in those regions? Is it typical for a 13mm+ Ulock in Amsterdam to get broken?

It's not competition with unguarded/unlocked bikes. In order to minimize chance of theft you're competing for least desirability and most effort to steal. Most if not all Dutch bikes are by default fitted with an O-lock, which is a good first line of defense, combined with attaching your bike to a railing/bikestand/tree with a decent hardened steel chain lock.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#122

Post by mercer »

stingraycharles wrote: post #113
mercer wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had three bikes stolen in about three months time. Each time, I used what was considered a high-end lock. I was usually more bummed out at losing the lock because they cost me more than the bike. The best strategy, I find, is to avoid leaving the bike in theft 'hot spots', especially in the weekend. If that can't be avoided, make sure to put the bike behind another bike, preferable a fancy one or one with a shit…

Yes. Another point is that even when you lock your bike, thiefs often carry the bike in its entirety or just screw off one of the wheels. Just don't buy a new bike when you're frequently in a hot spot.

Locking just a wheel is a rookie mistake, of course! Always wrap it around the frame and something that is solidly rooted in the ground.

It's just that even all that isn't always good enough if the homeless guy or professional bike thief has a power-cutter thingy.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#123

Post by rollingpebbles »

dtech wrote: post #73
avar wrote: post #47

> If anything, having a tatty, battered old > bike affords more status as it attests to > a long and lasting love. As an Amsterdam resident: What a romantic characterization of our high crime rates! Yes, the reason I still ride a shitty old beater of a bike is definitely my long lasting love for that piece of shit, it's not because I know that if I buy anything fancy I'm going to have to never take my eyes off of it,…

As a fellow dutchman, duct-tape the shit out of everything on your new bike. If you're really brave even partially paint it in a hideous color (purple or something). You'll still have a bad looking bike, but at least it will be mechanically much nicer than your fifth-hand rusting omafiets. Since I started doing that I never had a bike stolen in 15 years, despite living in Rotterdam and Utrecht (big cities) and buying…

There should be vinyl wrap for bikes that provides a paintable, duct-tapeable substrain for camo tape and radioactive fuchsia and orange also camo ejaculation. Flat (no shine) paint makes a bike even less attractive.

PS: I had a old/ugly bike that I had for 16 years in Davis, CA that I still locked and it was stolen from an apt complex the one and only time I forgot to lock it. There are thieves whom ride around in cargo trucks stealing bikes wholesale, in addition to people whom just "borrow" bikes and dump them whereever.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#124

Post by vincentmarle »

avar wrote: post #47

> If anything, having a tatty, battered old > bike affords more status as it attests to > a long and lasting love. As an Amsterdam resident: What a romantic characterization of our high crime rates! Yes, the reason I still ride a shitty old beater of a bike is definitely my long lasting love for that piece of shit, it's not because I know that if I buy anything fancy I'm going to have to never take my eyes off of it,…

In Rotterdam I used to "buy" my bikes from the homeless by offering a €5 kapsalon [1] in return for a bike. As a result, I didn't care too much if this bike got stolen and never bothered locking it, allowing others to take my bike. And then I would do it all over again.

In hindsight I realize I was probably wrong to contribute to this ecosystem, but the way I saw it, I was feeding the homeless to provide a social good.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapsalon

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#125

Post by cylinder »

giobox wrote: post #50
htaunay wrote: post #9

Why wouldn't it be? It's faster than the tram; a bike is cheap and cycling is free; its way easier to park than a car; its healthy; there are cycle paths everywhere (inside and between cities); and everyone else does it, so you usually have company.

While cycling is obviously much, much cheaper than a car, I'd argue its a myth to say it's 'free'. Start commuting a _reasonable_ distance regularly by bike and you are going to incur running costs, as well as often not insignificant investment in essential accessories you might need depending on where you live - clothing, panniers, lights, helmets, locks... There's a fair amount of things on a bike that, like many o…

this is kind of ridiculous. most people in NL commute on shitty cheap bikes just fine. obviously, not much maintenance will go into such a cheap bike. Sure, in America it's more common to "ball out" on your commuter rig, but that's not necessary.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#126

Post by city41 »

ramy_d wrote: post #81
avar wrote: post #47

> If anything, having a tatty, battered old > bike affords more status as it attests to > a long and lasting love. As an Amsterdam resident: What a romantic characterization of our high crime rates! Yes, the reason I still ride a shitty old beater of a bike is definitely my long lasting love for that piece of shit, it's not because I know that if I buy anything fancy I'm going to have to never take my eyes off of it,…

I don't get it - that competition is of bike thefts for unguarded and _unlocked_ bikes. Surely it means nothing. Do people not buy bike locks in those regions? Is it typical for a 13mm+ Ulock in Amsterdam to get broken?

U locks don't deter thieves at all. If they want a bike, they will get it no matter what. Almost everyone commutes on beaters for good reason.

https://www.citylab.com/navigator/2014/10/your-u-lock-is-bas...

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#127

Post by mikekchar »

mercer wrote: post #106
ocschwar wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Japanese have the perfect answer. They don't zone by use. They zone by nuisance level. You can build whatever you want in the cement-plant-district. But you have to deal with having that kind of nuisance nearby. You can also build whatever you want in the no-nuisance district. But you can't impose any kind of nuisnace.

How do they deal with the tension of having bars/clubs in residential areas? Or do these areas just not exist in Japan?

We happily walk to the bar from our houses and then walk back after having a few drinks.

One of the advantages of having bars in residential areas is that you don't concentrate them in one area. Unless you live in a big metropolis, the bars are not large, are not noisy and don't cause many problems. To be fair, I don't know how dance clubs are zoned. I have never seen one outside of a reasonably sized city. But, you can definitely hear people croning away in the karaoke clubs at night.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#128

Post by jdietrich »

raidoxim wrote: post #92

I'm Dutch, but think we tend to underestimate the impact of the flatness of our country, and the size of other countries especially the States. I've cycled on my normal 7-gear bicycle (and that might be considered fancy) from Newcastle to Carlisle. Which is quite flat. I had to walk so much up hill as it was utterly impossible to climb 40 meters. In the Netherlands quite a lot of people do live in a 50 km radius of t…

The three-speed hub gears that are typical in the Netherlands are practically unknown over here in the UK. Even the cheapest bicycles will have a 27-speed triple setup with an extremely low bottom gear. Mountain bikes completely took over the market in the 1990s, with a lasting legacy for almost all styles of bicycle.

A couple of cities are extremely challenging for cyclists (most notably Bristol) and we do have a few genuinely idiotic roads [1] but the hills aren't a huge obstacle for most cyclists on most routes. As long as you're cognisant of the need to slow down and pace yourself, the gearing does all the work for you. A moderately steep hill is no harder than a flat road when you're in a suitable gear, it's just slower.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEgjKpFqIJ0

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#129

Post by rollingpebbles »

I did a casual bike tour through hundreds of miles of Netherlands and Belgium. We wore helmets, obviously.

Not wearing a helmet is inconsisent with having many standards for reflectors and traffic planning. Although someone maybe slightly more careful, falling on a bicycle means a risk for head injuries. Why not take reasonable precautions, including instructing people that helmets do not add safety to anything besides head injuries? They're not a panacea, but protect against certain classes of injuries.

Anecdotally: When I was a kid, an obscured oily patch of road contributed to a fall to one side, head first, and slide for about 10 feet and the helmet I was wearing cracked instead of my skull. Road rash but didn't die or end up with traumatic brain injury.

Re: Why is cycling so popular in the Netherlands?

#130

Post by mercer »

giobox wrote: post #50
htaunay wrote: post #9

Why wouldn't it be? It's faster than the tram; a bike is cheap and cycling is free; its way easier to park than a car; its healthy; there are cycle paths everywhere (inside and between cities); and everyone else does it, so you usually have company.

While cycling is obviously much, much cheaper than a car, I'd argue its a myth to say it's 'free'. Start commuting a _reasonable_ distance regularly by bike and you are going to incur running costs, as well as often not insignificant investment in essential accessories you might need depending on where you live - clothing, panniers, lights, helmets, locks... There's a fair amount of things on a bike that, like many o…

I feel this doesn't describe my experience and that of most Dutch people I know. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it doesn't really apply to my particular context which I think is pretty common over here. Let me elaborate:

> clothing, panniers, lights, helmets, locks...

The lock is the biggest expense for most people: in my case the lock was usually more expensive than the bike! Panniers are dirt-cheap, as are lights (if we bother, which I believe we should, but many of us don't). Helmets are not very common except for kids and high-speed cyclists. And some tourists. And nobody except for aforementioned high-speed cyclists buy special clothes. We just wear what we're wearing that day.

> There's a fair amount of things on a bike that, like many other mechanical things, can need looking after to keep running well - new tires and tubes, CO2 cartridges if like me you are too lazy to manually pump, chains, cassettes, lubricant, wheels (eventually), brake pads/discs.

It's a kind of point of pride, especially for men traditionally, to fix your own bike if you have a flat. Generally speaking the same goes for tires and chains, although we sometimes go to a bike shop for that. Often though we just keep going until the chain snaps or the bike gets too slippery on wet roads. That doesn't seem to happen much though, which perhaps has something to do with the kinds of bikes we ride and how we use them. And of course the fact that there's a decent chance that the bike will get stolen or we buy a nicer, cheap, second-hand bike in the interim.

As for brakes: most bikes don't have the squeezy-hand-style brakes that do seem to be annoyingly needy. We generally have the back-pedal style that I've never ever had to replace.

And pumps are so ubiquitous that I've never had to own one myself.

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