Inside the Largest US Voter Data Leak • Hacker News Board

Re: Inside the Largest US Voter Data Leak

#211

Post by anigbrowl » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

johnmarcus wrote: post #178

anigbrowl wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really impressed at the lengths people will go to defend those whose malfeasance or ineptitude unarguably worsen the lives of up to two hundred million people . You seem like a smart person, please tell me how you think it's OK that these folks' contact details and potentially very detailed psychological and political profile information are now likely available on the dark web? Given that this data was collected…

Well, for one, you can legally obtain much more detailed information on a person from any background check application currently available. So, it's arguable this has really increased the likelihood of a future crime. "In criminal law, strict liability is liability for which mens rea (Latin for "guilty mind") does not have to be proven in relation to one or more elements comprising the actus reus (Latin for "guilty a…

That's all true, but continually talking about what a hard problem it is as a way to avoid settling on some harsh penalties (financial or custodial) for negligence of various types only perpetuates the problem. Courts can decide whether a harsh punishment should actually apply in any given case. But right now, no such punishments are even defined so there are no strong incentives to minimize negligence and restrict collection and distribution of that information.

tl;dr penal incentives function like a sword of Damocles. As long as we're debating whether and what size of sword of sword to hang from a thread, Damocles has no reason to worry.

Re: Inside the Largest US Voter Data Leak

#212

Post by txmx2000 » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

remline wrote: post #75

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #47

As long as the CEO of an company (RNC) that gives data to an outsourcer (Deep Root Analytics) is not going to jail to give data to an unqualified company, nothing will change. If the CEO goes to jail, things will change very rapidly (CEO will manage his CMO much tighter who will first want to see an security audit not older than 6 months). At least CEOs I have reported to as CTO were very sensitive for implemention i…

If this data has private information on non-republicans then jail them for having it, not for leaking it. There is no special purpose in these two groups of colluding Americans that grants them special rights to gather data on their non-associates any differently than any other member of the public.

It's public information. The only difference is it's all in one place.

Re: Inside the Largest US Voter Data Leak

#213

Post by txmx2000 » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

remline wrote: post #75

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #47

As long as the CEO of an company (RNC) that gives data to an outsourcer (Deep Root Analytics) is not going to jail to give data to an unqualified company, nothing will change. If the CEO goes to jail, things will change very rapidly (CEO will manage his CMO much tighter who will first want to see an security audit not older than 6 months). At least CEOs I have reported to as CTO were very sensitive for implemention i…

If this data has private information on non-republicans then jail them for having it, not for leaking it. There is no special purpose in these two groups of colluding Americans that grants them special rights to gather data on their non-associates any differently than any other member of the public.

It's public information. The only difference is it's all in one place.

Re: Inside the Largest US Voter Data Leak

#214

Post by txmx2000 » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

remline wrote: post #75

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #47

As long as the CEO of an company (RNC) that gives data to an outsourcer (Deep Root Analytics) is not going to jail to give data to an unqualified company, nothing will change. If the CEO goes to jail, things will change very rapidly (CEO will manage his CMO much tighter who will first want to see an security audit not older than 6 months). At least CEOs I have reported to as CTO were very sensitive for implemention i…

If this data has private information on non-republicans then jail them for having it, not for leaking it. There is no special purpose in these two groups of colluding Americans that grants them special rights to gather data on their non-associates any differently than any other member of the public.

It's public information. The only difference is it's all in one place.

Re: Inside the Largest US Voter Data Leak

#215

Post by throwawaymaroon » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 7:28 PM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #202

criley2 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>?A careless programmer makes a bad choice and the CEO has to go to jail? Come on An institutional failure of review, testing and security that will lead to tens of billions of dollars of identity theft goes unpunished completely? Come on. A CEO is responsible for his organization. If you ruin lives, you have to pay the price. Can't handle the heat? Don't take the job. I hate how CEO's get hundred million dollar para…

This isn't social security numbers. This is all publicly available data scrapping stuff. Like your public Facebook profile. If you don't want that stuff to be leaked, then don't put your info publicly on Facebook.

facebook is irrelevant to this conversation

Re: Inside the Largest US Voter Data Leak

#216

Post by samstave » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 7:29 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #158

ksk wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can't blame a "careless programmer" when the real problem is organizations simply not committing any resources to security. How have you established that they didn't have a sufficient number of experts? What if they purchased a product or service and it simply didn't work? Its rather harsh to point fingers without having all of the information. >We'll keep seeing things like this until our laws are such that ste…

I'm really impressed at the lengths people will go to defend those whose malfeasance or ineptitude unarguably worsen the lives of up to two hundred million people . You seem like a smart person, please tell me how you think it's OK that these folks' contact details and potentially very detailed psychological and political profile information are now likely available on the dark web? Given that this data was collected…

There are times when I disagree with you, but then there are times like this when I can't agree more.

Now, with that said, I find this position slightly juxtaposed to the position you appeared to hold on the privacy of citizens when the Snowden leaks happened.

Why would political preferences be more sacrosanct than other preferences or private predilections people hold...

It would be great to define all the data-types a citizen can hold a position on and determine those which the government / entities can gain access to, and those which a citizen can expect privacy with...

And have that as a simple checklist as opposed to hidden in lengthy language of laws?

Re: Inside the Largest US Voter Data Leak

#217

Post by stale2002 » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 7:30 PM UTC

wutwutwutwut wrote: post #208

stale2002 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't social security numbers. This is all publicly available data scrapping stuff. Like your public Facebook profile. If you don't want that stuff to be leaked, then don't put your info publicly on Facebook.

I didn't put mine on Facebook. What's step 2?

Are you registered to vote?

Then your info is publicly available for anyone to get. The government will just give it to you.

Re: Inside the Largest US Voter Data Leak

#218

Post by Maarten88 » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 7:32 PM UTC

pmyteh wrote: post #113

creepydata wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah. Why don't you calm down and read the comment you are replying to. The comment you were replying to wasn't taking a position on the issue, and certainly not a strong one, merely asking questions. >The mere thought of compiling such information here would lead to some hefty jail time these days. No, not in the United States it wouldn't. Not only is it not illegal, it's standard practice by marking companies, data…

"Here" in GP's comment is stated as being The Netherlands. Europe does in general have stricter data protection laws than the US, though I don't know them well enough to know which bits of this leak would be illegal here. Allowing the leak itself would be, at least under UK law.

I think processing any data like that (ethnicity, political viewpoints, union memberships) is completely illegal in the Netherlands (and I assume in the EU) [1] (dutch).

I would personally be very disturbed and angry if data like that about me would exist, let alone leak to the internet. No matter who has it, that data should not exist. Do people in the US really not feel that way?

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/dem/watify/selli...

Re: Inside the Largest US Voter Data Leak

#219

Post by nemothekid » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 7:33 PM UTC

Godel_unicode wrote: post #137

angersock wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careless programmers don't compile dossiers on over 200M American citizens just for funsies.

You might be interested in visiting : Facebook.com Lexisnexis.com Twitter.com Plus.google.com LinkedIn.com Etc...

Not sure I understand your response. I wouldn't describe Facebook's security processes as "careless", nor would I describe their vast and complete data collection as "for funsies"

Re: Inside the Largest US Voter Data Leak

#220

Post by anigbrowl » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 7:33 PM UTC

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #166

anigbrowl wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really impressed at the lengths people will go to defend those whose malfeasance or ineptitude unarguably worsen the lives of up to two hundred million people . You seem like a smart person, please tell me how you think it's OK that these folks' contact details and potentially very detailed psychological and political profile information are now likely available on the dark web? Given that this data was collected…

> I'm really impressed at the lengths people will go to defend those whose malfeasance or ineptitude unarguably worsen the lives of up to two hundred million people. You seem like a smart person, please tell me how you think it's OK that these folks' contact details and potentially very detailed psychological and political profile information are now likely available on the dark web? So far I've seen people disagree…

We've been having reasonable discussions on these topics for many years. Discussions that never lead to decisions and actions are a sideshow.

I'm calling for action - strong user-centric privacy protections with strict liability and significant personal and organization penalties for negligence, similar to the French model.