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Real name policies and ruling the world

theartificialintelligenceblog.com

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Re: Real name policies and ruling the world

#121

Post by Santosh83 »

lwhalen wrote: post #69
newscracker wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many people, not being on Facebook is neither a choice nor an option because their social network - the ones they depend on - are all there and nowhere else (except probably WhatsApp, which is owned by Facebook and where the contact metadata is shared between the two). In my opinion, only some privileged people are able to really have this choice and act on it. The rest don't know (not privileged enough to know/u…

It's a 'privilege' to not be on Facebook? On Maslow's Hierarchy Of Needs, nowhere is there any mention of 'online services' or 'Facebook access', or even 'Internet access'. If ever there was a textbook "Sh*t HN Says" comment worthy of the moniker, yours is it. Facebook is a business, just like your local grocer, just like any number of restaurants, just like a bookstore. If any of the above aren't giving you the serv…

Not friends. Networking. Let me give you a concrete example. My wife is an animal rescuer and she coordinates her activities with the rest of about a few dozen rescuers in this city, and thousands across the country, almost completely on Facebook, or ocassionally on Whatsapp. It is realtime, convenient, real name based and privacy settings exist to block trolls and nuisances.

Now what do you suggest she use for her communications? Plain old telephone? Or email lists? Neither are anywhere near the convenience of Facebook. And these are all non-tech folk, so suggesting they host their own BBS or some such option is a total nonstarter.

The point is, millions of people across the world use Facebook for similar use cases. Yes, they could ALL take the time and effort to learn some tech and migrate to another platform. But that's like asking the majority of Earth's people to become self-sustaining permaculturists. It's very unlikely to happen.

Re: Real name policies and ruling the world

#122

Post by Santosh83 »

grandalf wrote: post #73

By requiring real names, Facebook is trying to combat the sort of social discord that occurs on sites like Reddit where people routinely abandon identities, or create throwaway identities to participate in specific fora. Imagine if car license plates had our name and home address on them, would we be as likely to commit road rage, pick our noses, double park, etc. Facebook sees itself as a commons first, and the prod…

I'd like to humourously point out that your last sentence and your HN handle sort of contradict each other. :-)

Re: Real name policies and ruling the world

#123

Post by Santosh83 »

CM30 wrote: post #120
pjc50 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine if car license plates had our name and home address on them Dunno about where you live, but in the UK the registration authority maps license plates to registered owners addresses, and you can ask them to look it up for you: https://www.gov.uk/request-information-from-dvla The UK of course still has road rage and double parking. WRT online abuse and "hate preaching", some of the most insidious stuff is done…

> WRT online abuse and "hate preaching", some of the most insidious stuff is done in public by people proudly using their own names. Like Katie "Final Solution" Hopkins. This. Also, if you look at the Facebook comments for a post or article anywhere online, you'll also realise how many people simply don't care if their real name is tied to their trolling/hate. The percentage of people who only bully/attack others und…

I can confirm this from my own experience too. Merely requiring real names does nothing to stop hate & trolling because people create throwaway accounts with real names (which are however not their real name) and troll. And there is no way FB can verify if these are the actual names of the operating user without requiring some ID or meatspace verification. And that can be faked too.

Although yes, the barrier for misbehaving becomes bigger and bigger as we move from a scale of total and easy anonymity towards something tied to real life identity as much as your passport or bank account is.

Re: Real name policies and ruling the world

#124

Post by rwmj »

throwanem wrote: post #38
tyrw wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still use all those things to your heart's content; just don't create a Facebook account...

You don't need to! Facebook will create one for you. It's called a "shadow profile", and as far as I'm aware, there is no way to opt out, prevent it occurring, or even discover what information about you - true or otherwise - is retained under this rubric.

Actually they are likely to be illegal in the EU (http://www.europe-v-facebook.org/Compalint_02_Shadow_Profile...), and you can request your profile using ordinary EU data protection laws.

Re: Real name policies and ruling the world

#125

Post by Santosh83 »

perfectstorm wrote: post #56

anyone remember Orkut ? One of the reasons why I quit Orkut was because they didn't care about real names. so people started using weird characters and unicodes instead of their real name. This won't be a problem when you're not friends with them but once you're friends with them and your friend changes their name to some weird characters, you don't know who you're talking to. I hated that. I think the article is loo…

A trivial way to mitigate this is to allow users to create psuedonyms, but not the ability to change them after they've been created, except to create another account. Most people won't bother.

Re: Real name policies and ruling the world

#126

Post by walshemj »

sverige wrote: post #59
gweinberg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been told Native Americans often have problem with the "real names" policy because they often sound "fake" to people used to European names.

Yes. For example, Begay is a common Navajo surname. Others use traditional names (such as Standing Bear, for example). Odds are the people at facebook making these decisions have never known anyone with such a name.

Well odds are that these people at not even in the USA and would have even less idea or impose there cultures pov - this may explain why the is real name policy seems to be targeted at LBGT people.

Re: Real name policies and ruling the world

#127

Post by Tharkun »

circadiam wrote: post #51

The real irony of these threads on HN: no one has ever run a social network. If they did, they would realize that mixing pseudonyms with real names is a formula for disaster. It’s probably the easiest way to continuously bother someone and troll groups to no end.

No one on HN has ever run a social network? I think you're talking to the wrong demographic here.

I used to run an online community in the late 90s early 2000s which would now be called a social network. Some people used real names, some people used pseudonyms, and some people used both. There was no "disaster".

Re: Real name policies and ruling the world

#128

Post by Tharkun »

freeflight wrote: post #34
coldtea wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you agree that a web service is not a private residence? A coffe shop, a supermarket, a bookstore, etc. doesn't have right to check your ID. Heck, from what I know, in the US even the police cannot ask you for an id without "reasonable suspicion" that you did something illegal.

>Do you agree that a web service is not a private residence? For all purpose and effect, it equals a private residence. After all the web service is run by somebody on servers that somebody either owns or pays for. If I don't want you on my web service I have every right in the world not to let you in/use it because you have no right to demand usage of my private property (servers). >A coffe shop, a supermarket, a bo…

> While I'm not 100% sure about the legal situation in the US, I'm pretty sure regular householder's rights apply.

Not sure about that. Some places (like malls or train stations, possibly others) are considered public places to some extent.

Re: Real name policies and ruling the world

#129

Post by Tharkun »

gfredtech wrote: post #12
dandelion_lover wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do not use the Internet. Do not use phones. Do not use bank accounts. Do not travel by plane. Do not enter public spaces. Do not show your face. Otherwise you accept our Terms of Service. Thank you for trusting us." (C) QuantumRoar, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12958035

Exactly, the inherent problem is the creation of shadow profiles of non Facebook users. The most annoying part is the fact that they can make your friends snitch on you, just in case you're not using your real name

And they'll steal your phone number from your friends' phones and add it your account without your knowledge. Every once in a while I log in to FB and it will ask me if I want to share my phone number with them, with my number conveniently pre-entered in the input field. I never gave them my number.

Re: Real name policies and ruling the world

#130

Post by Tharkun »

lwhalen wrote: post #44

Is there some reason I'm not aware of that makes "leaving Facebook" not the reasonable, default, option? If they REALLY are "naive, dangerous, and evil", just... don't use their service. Hit them where it hurts and take your eyeballs elsewhere.

You can't leave facebook. They will never delete your data, even if you ask them nicely.
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