Australia has the most expensive energy bills • Hacker News Board

Re: Australia has the most expensive energy bills

#21

Post by sundvor » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 1:08 AM UTC

I live in Victoria, Australia. Energy bills are through the roof - almost literally as "insulation" is a thing just about no-one here has any competence with. Whatsoever. I'm talking about builders and building code designers specifically.

Ironically (see the top and bottom positions of the chart), I spent the first 40% of my life in Norway where things do get proper cold as opposed to in Australia where it's accepted to just have a heater pumping hot air through literal slits in the building (e.g. 0.5cm gaps under the external doors, that sort of nonsense), resulting in houses that are never properly comfortable at horrific expense. Yet in Norway the houses are actually insulated for deep, real winters and don't even need active heating at the temperatures costing Australians a fortune (eg 5-15c). I'm pretty sure it's impossible to get single glaced windows in Norway (because it's actually illegal to use), yet here it's a "luxury" item which is priced as you'd expect when not a standard. This gets my blood boiling (hey, free heating).

On a side note, I just started ETH mining on a Pascal GPU, and can still turn a profit. If I still lived in Norway I'd buy a lot of GPUs..

Re: Australia has the most expensive energy bills

#22

Post by nimchimpsky » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 1:09 AM UTC

chrisper wrote: post #4

dwhitworth1 wrote: post #2

I moved to Newcastle, Australia from the US (Los Angeles) about two years ago. I was shocked when I received my energy bill. Australians in general are hesitant to use their AC or electric heaters, opting to just layer up when it's cold or try to use fans in the summer. Many (most?) households don't have clothes dryers, using clotheslines instead. I would like to see how much energy the average Australian household c…

>That said, I much prefer living in Australia to the U.S., especially while raising a family. Why is that?

Food is better, people are friendlier, sunnier, better quality of life, better stuff for kids. Less tax.

Re: Australia has the most expensive energy bills

#23

Post by ceejayoz » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 1:09 AM UTC

chrisper wrote: post #4

dwhitworth1 wrote: post #2

I moved to Newcastle, Australia from the US (Los Angeles) about two years ago. I was shocked when I received my energy bill. Australians in general are hesitant to use their AC or electric heaters, opting to just layer up when it's cold or try to use fans in the summer. Many (most?) households don't have clothes dryers, using clotheslines instead. I would like to see how much energy the average Australian household c…

>That said, I much prefer living in Australia to the U.S., especially while raising a family. Why is that?

Healthcare and college won't bankrupt you?

Re: Australia has the most expensive energy bills

#24

Post by Overtonwindow » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 1:09 AM UTC

Sort of on-topic but I recall once an Australian company called Enviromission that was wanting to build solar updraft towers in the outback. With so much incredibly solar-rich, un-used land, I thought Australia would've gone all in for solar by now.

Re: Australia has the most expensive energy bills

#25

Post by NamTaf » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 1:11 AM UTC

ontario_sucks wrote: post #14

Hmm. Price per kWh is not really a good way to compare. My last bill in Ontario had about $10 in usage in kWh but on top of that there are mandatory 'delivery' charges which, in my case, amounted to $90. The real rate I pay (before taxes) is essentially 10x the supposed kWh rate. And from the news reports locally, I'm getting off very lightly. My bills are multiples what they were in the UK (for the same usage) and b…

In QLD my rates are as follows, GST included:

Supply charge: $1.10/day

Usage rate: 28.6c/kWh

Therefore, my standard quarterly bill will have $100 of supply charges in addition to any usage that occurs.

I am super lucky that I got on to PV when there was a large (unsustainably so) government incentive, so my feed-in rate is 54.6c/kWh (not including GST) which more than offsets my normal use since I am never home during the day and thus feed that all in, then use power at night at the 28.6c rate. I essentially get a negative bill as a result (told you it was unsustainable).

Nowadays, the feed-in for new contracts is just 6c or so, hence people now look to invest in using that power, or having battery storage.

Re: Australia has the most expensive energy bills

#26

Post by Benjamin_Dobell » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 1:11 AM UTC

chrisper wrote: post #4

dwhitworth1 wrote: post #2

I moved to Newcastle, Australia from the US (Los Angeles) about two years ago. I was shocked when I received my energy bill. Australians in general are hesitant to use their AC or electric heaters, opting to just layer up when it's cold or try to use fans in the summer. Many (most?) households don't have clothes dryers, using clotheslines instead. I would like to see how much energy the average Australian household c…

>That said, I much prefer living in Australia to the U.S., especially while raising a family. Why is that?

It's obviously a subjective matter. However, seems as he specifically mentioned "while raising a family", here are a few possible reasons:

- Safety

In general Australia has a lower crime rate than USA. Of course, there are absolutely areas within USA that would have a lower crime rate than certain areas of Australia.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Australia/U...

- Health Care

Australia has well established free public health care that covers general illness, radiology, necessary surgeries, disabilities etc. Higher income earners are expected to also have private health insurance and are penalised in their taxes if they don't have it. However, if you're a low(er) income earner or simply prefer the public health system it works quite well.

https://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/dhs/medicare

There's also a pretty solid Welfare system if you are worried about income stability for whatever reason.

The free public education system is also quite good, although I'm unclear on how it compares to the USA.

Of course, there are also many benefits to living in the USA over Australia - particularly if you're working in the tech sector. There is a strong tech scene in Australian capital cities, but it's fairly quiet elsewhere. There's nothing comparable to Silicon Valley.

Depending on your business, the USA can also be a better place to start your own business - larger sales capacity (if you can deal with the fact States have very different taxation rules etc.) and significantly more VC opportunities (although Australia is slowly picking up its game).

Film and TV industries are also obviously miles behind LA or even New York. So if that's an industry you're interested in then USA is the place to be.

However, Australia seems to compare fairly favourably when raising a family is your biggest priority, say over career advancement.

Re: Australia has the most expensive energy bills

#27

Post by yakult » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 1:11 AM UTC

aplummer wrote: post #11

surfmike wrote: post #5

Sounds like an ideal market for home solar and Tesla powerwalls.

Australia does actually have the highest level of home solar installation in the world. Unrelated to very low government investment in it.

I suspect that's actually part of the problem: a massive buildout of renewables without full accounting or planning for the complications to the grid, i.e. all the shock loads and lack of storage. Then the consumer is left footing the bill.

At the same time, we have signed long-term LNG contracts while simultaneously large gas projects are delayed by various red tape and doesn't look like it'll clear up any time soon. I read at some point Australia is importing LNG just to reexport it to meet contract requirements.

Re: Australia has the most expensive energy bills

#28

Post by sundvor » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 1:12 AM UTC

JonRB wrote: post #10

dwhitworth1 wrote: post #2

I moved to Newcastle, Australia from the US (Los Angeles) about two years ago. I was shocked when I received my energy bill. Australians in general are hesitant to use their AC or electric heaters, opting to just layer up when it's cold or try to use fans in the summer. Many (most?) households don't have clothes dryers, using clotheslines instead. I would like to see how much energy the average Australian household c…

> Australians in general are hesitant to use their AC or electric heaters Anecdotal, but I don't think I know a single person here who is hesitant to use heating/AC - could just be down to the people I know, but I get funny looks when I tell people just to wrap up. Something that did surprise me here is the near-complete lack of double glazing. Everywhere I've lived has been thin single-glazed windows which just let…

Yeah, see my other comment. Australian builders / the whole building industry is downright ignorant and just about completely incompetent when it comes to thermal management.

Re: Australia has the most expensive energy bills

#29

Post by dwhitworth1 » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 1:13 AM UTC

chrisper wrote: post #4

dwhitworth1 wrote: post #2

I moved to Newcastle, Australia from the US (Los Angeles) about two years ago. I was shocked when I received my energy bill. Australians in general are hesitant to use their AC or electric heaters, opting to just layer up when it's cold or try to use fans in the summer. Many (most?) households don't have clothes dryers, using clotheslines instead. I would like to see how much energy the average Australian household c…

>That said, I much prefer living in Australia to the U.S., especially while raising a family. Why is that?

A number of reasons: 1. Safety. I don't hear gunfire on New Year's Eve, like we used to in L.A. and some places I lived in Orange County as well. Someone getting shot is almost national news here.

2. Government support. If I lost my job I wouldn't have to worry about how to pay for health services. We're a healthy family, but peace of mind is great.

3. Government support. My 7 year old was diagnosed with mild ASD, ADHD and Dyslexia in Kindergarten. The National Disability Insurance Scheme has helped us pay for Occupational Therapy, Speech Pathology and Psychology. She has very much thrived here, and we are grateful for it.

4. Professional environment. This might be anec-data (all of it might), but mine and my wife's workplaces are very flexible when it comes to taking care of family matters.

There are TONS of things I miss about living in Southern California (it still feels like home in many ways, good Mexican food, Disneyland, running my AC non-stop all Summer!, etc), but, for us, the pros outweigh the cons.

Re: Australia has the most expensive energy bills

#30

Post by kbutler » Mon, Jun 19, 2017, 1:13 AM UTC

aplummer wrote: post #12

daleroberts wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I've heard from people installing solar at home is that even though you install solar and a battery, you are not allowed to disconnect from the network unless you are a rural property. can anyone confirm this?

I don't know about this one, but I'm not sure why you would. A lot of that investment gets paid back by feeding energy back into the grid - you would be throwing money away.

Net metering is under heavy pressure from utilities because it costs them a lot. They'd also like connection fees to pay for the infrastructure they have to maintain, even if you aren't using (much of) their electricity.