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How Amazon Crushed the Union Movement (2014)

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Re: How Amazon Crushed the Union Movement (2014)

#101

Post by elicash »

chimeracoder wrote: post #99
elicash wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

501c5's are non-profit organizations. The idea that unions have greater ability to coerce workers is LAUGHABLE. First, to your point directly, the NLRB website notes that "Threats to employees that they will lose their jobs unless they support the union" are ILLEGAL, just as it is for corporations. At the same time, however, corporations are able to force employees to listen to anti-union propaganda and pressure them…

> 501c5's are non-profit organizations. Which are corporations. > But no, you want elections in places WITH unions annually, but you don't want elections in places WITHOUT them. Democracy only when it suits your desired outcomes. Aside from having a number of basic misunderstandings about corporate and labor law, you're making enough assumptions and judgements about what I want that it's clear you're really intereste…

Here's my attempt at compromise on the "corporation" thing. They're in the same basic category as churches and social clubs. And these different types of non-profit organizations have to go through a process to be recognized by governments. I think we can agree on that. People can decide for themselves whether you're being misleading with how you use the term and what you say makes them different from, say, Google.

The only assumption I made is that you would be opposed to a union election in every workplace in America on an annual basis. If that's wrong, let me know, and I'll actually be quite thrilled.

Re: How Amazon Crushed the Union Movement (2014)

#102

Post by [deleted] »

chimeracoder wrote: post #100
fixxer wrote: post #70

Looking through the comments, I see a combination of anecdotal evidence about Unions being bad/good and a few (very logical) statements about how collective bargaining leads to higher wages & benefits. Here are my two pennies: Private sector unions are great for collective bargaining, though I prefer they abstain from broad political platforms (immigration, for example), as these are so far removed the intent of the…

> Private sector unions are great for collective bargaining, though I prefer they abstain from broad political platforms (immigration, for example), as these are so far removed the intent of the union. I tend to view these Unions as being political vehicles first, collective bargaining agents second. That isn't a compliment. The feature you're describing is not an accident. Lobbying for restrictive immigration laws (…

[deleted]

Re: How Amazon Crushed the Union Movement (2014)

#103

Post by fixxer »

chimeracoder wrote: post #100
fixxer wrote: post #70

Looking through the comments, I see a combination of anecdotal evidence about Unions being bad/good and a few (very logical) statements about how collective bargaining leads to higher wages & benefits. Here are my two pennies: Private sector unions are great for collective bargaining, though I prefer they abstain from broad political platforms (immigration, for example), as these are so far removed the intent of the…

> Private sector unions are great for collective bargaining, though I prefer they abstain from broad political platforms (immigration, for example), as these are so far removed the intent of the union. I tend to view these Unions as being political vehicles first, collective bargaining agents second. That isn't a compliment. The feature you're describing is not an accident. Lobbying for restrictive immigration laws (…

Things have changed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_policies_of_Americ...

Re: How Amazon Crushed the Union Movement (2014)

#104

Post by elicash »

DrScump wrote: post #92
tomjakubowski wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, collective bargaining doesn't mean that an individual has no ability to negotiate their own contract with their employer, there are just certain restrictions. See, for example, the collective bargaining done on behalf of professional athletes by unions, like the NBPA or MLBPA.

All such contracts are subordinate to the CBA and can't have conflicting elements. For example, a ballplayer can't waive a CBA_specified contrast constraint (e.g. many performance incentives are disallowed, can't work for less than the CBA-mandated minimum, etc.).

You're both saying the same thing. What workers negotiate and agree to for their CBA is a contract and they can choose to not include certain things so that individuals can create a second contract individually.

Re: How Amazon Crushed the Union Movement (2014)

#105

Post by DrScump »

elicash wrote: post #104
DrScump wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All such contracts are subordinate to the CBA and can't have conflicting elements. For example, a ballplayer can't waive a CBA_specified contrast constraint (e.g. many performance incentives are disallowed, can't work for less than the CBA-mandated minimum, etc.).

You're both saying the same thing. What workers negotiate and agree to for their CBA is a contract and they can choose to not include certain things so that individuals can create a second contract individually.

  they can choose to not include certain things
No, they can't. That was my point.

Re: How Amazon Crushed the Union Movement (2014)

#106

Post by pm24601 »

Kocrachon wrote: post #4

As a former member of a union, I honestly find it odd at how many people think that unions are always good. Of the two unions I was a part of and watching what my dad went through with his Union I'm actually fairly anti-union at this point in my life. I watched a guy get fired for sexual harassment, and rehired due to pressure from the Union. I watched my father not get a manager position, because of seniority ruling…

> I watched my father not get a manager position, because of seniority ruling, and they gave it to a guy who was fired and then unfired (thanks to the union) for having a secret nap room behind some machines.

So the guy should have been fired for taking a nap?

Jez man, you and I so don't see eye-to-eye on this one. If someone is tired, they are not functioning well. If a manager is tired, they are not going to be at their best for handling employees without saying something improper.

But just based on your statement, he should have been rehired.

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