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BasicAttentionToken Roadmap 1.0

basicattentiontoken.org

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Re: BasicAttentionToken Roadmap 1.0

#21

Post by Taek »

hudon wrote: post #13
Taek wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been hoping for a long time that browsers could use cryptocurrency to monetize publishers through methods other than advertising. Was very glad to see Brave pairing a browser with cryptocurrency (though I don't know how they will handle the scalability issues), and then very disappointed to see that it's not actually replacing ads, but instead encouraging users to watch them.

Why do you need a cryptocurrency to make the model work? If people wanted to do this, couldn't Chrome build a "Google Token" that does the same thing?

Interoperability I think is the biggest hurdle. There's nothing particularly special about blockchains here except that it's really easy to move between currencies once you've got accounts on the right exchanges.

Without cryptocurrency, you'd need some way for a user to pay all websites they visit. Ads can go on any browser and be served from any company. Ad networks don't need to interoperate. But if a user is paying publishers, it's a huge hurdle to have to pay a new publisher payment processor every time you visit a new site. Sure, 70% might accept Google payments, but what about the rest of them? And what about the users who are not on Google's payment platform?

Not that cryptocurrency solves all these problems. It's still a hard thing to do. But I think it at least lowers the barrier.

Re: BasicAttentionToken Roadmap 1.0

#22

Post by Taek »

hudon wrote: post #14

The use of a blockchain here is going to slow them down... The business model is really interesting but if it ends up working, Google will see it, build a Google Token that doesn't rely on the blockchain, undercut them severely on costs and transfer times, and call it a day.

I don't see Google jumping into this market. Also, it's a lot easier to pay someone in cryptocurrency than in Google token -cryptocurrency is accepted as valid payment in a much more diverse set of places.

The blockchain doesn't need to slow them down if they scale correctly. You'd do most of this stuff through payment channels or a lightning network. And, the lightning network can be made to be cross-chain. You wouldn't even need to pay everyone in bitcoin or ethereum, you could pay them in whatever currency they prefer.

Re: BasicAttentionToken Roadmap 1.0

#23

Post by hudon »

Taek wrote: post #21
hudon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you need a cryptocurrency to make the model work? If people wanted to do this, couldn't Chrome build a "Google Token" that does the same thing?

Interoperability I think is the biggest hurdle. There's nothing particularly special about blockchains here except that it's really easy to move between currencies once you've got accounts on the right exchanges. Without cryptocurrency, you'd need some way for a user to pay all websites they visit. Ads can go on any browser and be served from any company. Ad networks don't need to interoperate. But if a user is payin…

> it's really easy to move between currencies once you've got accounts on the right exchanges.

wait so the users are going to need more than one kind of token? And they're going to need to open accounts on an exchange?

> Without cryptocurrency, you'd need some way for a user to pay all websites they visit. Ads can go on any browser and be served from any company. Ad networks don't need to interoperate. But if a user is paying publishers, it's a huge hurdle to have to pay a new publisher payment processor every time you visit a new site. Sure, 70% might accept Google payments, but what about the rest of them? And what about the users who are not on Google's payment platform?

Hold on, BAT is 1 kind of token. All the ad publishers need to integrate with the BAT. How is this different than having all ad publishers integrating with Google Token?

If there is a competing token, let's call it CAT, how is that different than the AppleToken competing with the Google Token, from the user's perspective?

Re: BasicAttentionToken Roadmap 1.0

#24

Post by hudon »

Taek wrote: post #22
hudon wrote: post #14

The use of a blockchain here is going to slow them down... The business model is really interesting but if it ends up working, Google will see it, build a Google Token that doesn't rely on the blockchain, undercut them severely on costs and transfer times, and call it a day.

I don't see Google jumping into this market. Also, it's a lot easier to pay someone in cryptocurrency than in Google token -cryptocurrency is accepted as valid payment in a much more diverse set of places. The blockchain doesn't need to slow them down if they scale correctly. You'd do most of this stuff through payment channels or a lightning network. And, the lightning network can be made to be cross-chain. You woul…

Google wouldn't even need to create a "token", just let you store USD in your Google Wallet and let you cash it out when you want (venmo style). The user already has a way to pay online: their credit card. So: no new merchant integration to build, $0 fees, no security deposit (vs lightning network), no verification documents to submit (crypto exchanges), no network backlog (due to full blocks or ICOs happening).

It would just work.

Re: BasicAttentionToken Roadmap 1.0

#25

Post by jameskegel »

Taek wrote: post #22
hudon wrote: post #14

The use of a blockchain here is going to slow them down... The business model is really interesting but if it ends up working, Google will see it, build a Google Token that doesn't rely on the blockchain, undercut them severely on costs and transfer times, and call it a day.

I don't see Google jumping into this market. Also, it's a lot easier to pay someone in cryptocurrency than in Google token -cryptocurrency is accepted as valid payment in a much more diverse set of places. The blockchain doesn't need to slow them down if they scale correctly. You'd do most of this stuff through payment channels or a lightning network. And, the lightning network can be made to be cross-chain. You woul…

Lets not forget how many different chat/IM/text applications that Google currently maintains; I'm sure if they had so much as a whim of desire to compete in this market, the MVP is already cooking somewhere on a Googler's hobby lab.

Re: BasicAttentionToken Roadmap 1.0

#26

Post by problems »

kgwxd wrote: post #5

Who would run a browser specifically designed to track and show ads? I can't imagine it ever being enough to support the ecosystem. Edit: And how is the locally gathered "attention" monitoring not exploitable by the people who get paid for the attention? Running a bunch of VMs that "pay attention" to the ad seems like a cheap thing to rig up.

Indeed an open source browser that anyone can bot doesn't mix well with the idea of paying people to just watch something... crypto currencies work because they don't rely on trust. This is precisely the opposite of that. The whole idea is fucked on premise right off the bat.

Of course, Ethereum users snap it up at ICO within a single block for something like $33 million. There's way too much stupidity in that market at the moment.

Re: BasicAttentionToken Roadmap 1.0

#27

Post by homakov »

problems wrote: post #26
kgwxd wrote: post #5

Who would run a browser specifically designed to track and show ads? I can't imagine it ever being enough to support the ecosystem. Edit: And how is the locally gathered "attention" monitoring not exploitable by the people who get paid for the attention? Running a bunch of VMs that "pay attention" to the ad seems like a cheap thing to rig up.

Indeed an open source browser that anyone can bot doesn't mix well with the idea of paying people to just watch something... crypto currencies work because they don't rely on trust. This is precisely the opposite of that. The whole idea is fucked on premise right off the bat. Of course, Ethereum users snap it up at ICO within a single block for something like $33 million. There's way too much stupidity in that market…

It would be true, but someone like Brendan Eich mush be onto something, right? He can't risk all his reputation for just 33M?

Re: BasicAttentionToken Roadmap 1.0

#29

Post by sneak »

Let's not forget who is behind this: Brave, a company founded by Brendan Eich, who was forced to resign from his leadership position at Mozilla when it came to light that he is a bigot that does not believe that gay people should have equal human rights.

Enrich bigots at your own risk.

PS: I encourage you to tweet gifs of boys kissing at him; each time I do he writes me a missive in DM and re-blocks me.

Re: BasicAttentionToken Roadmap 1.0

#30

Post by ProxCoques »

Isn't the BAT/Brave concept a response to what is essentially the same problem as email spam? That is, unwanted/irrelevant advertising at near-zero cost to produce, and that increasingly relies on brute force to overcome countermeasures?

If so, it might be worth evaluating it in terms of the myriads of email spam solutions that have been proposed over the years. Specifically, those solutions based on users adopting different client/server platforms and digital money. Both of which have been shown to be next to impossible to get ordinary people to do as part of their already-established use of the Internet. The general public barely knows what a browser is, much less the concepts involved in a weird new payment system.

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