There’s still no good reason to believe black-white IQ differences due to genes
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Re: There’s still no good reason to believe black-white IQ differences due to genes
#2This is a subject no-one dare broach without getting labelled 'racist' or a 'white supremacist' etc. People need to be free to pursue science free of political and social ideology.
Are all people equal? No. Should all people be treated equally? Of course. That's the distinction a lot of these people don't make, the article is all 'yap, yap yap' and very light on facts.
Re: There’s still no good reason to believe black-white IQ differences due to genes
#3This is a subject no-one dare broach without getting labelled 'racist' or a 'white supremacist' etc. People need to be free to pursue science free of political and social ideology. Are all people equal? No. Should all people be treated equally? Of course. That's the distinction a lot of these people don't make, the article is all 'yap, yap yap' and very light on facts.
Perhaps you would find the original article https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/5/18/15655638/charles-... has the weighty facts that this response-to-criticism lacks.
I strongly disagree with the rationalist fallacy that science must progress unfettered by social or political 'ideology'. The very notion that science is ideologically blanched, that it exists in some asocial vacuum, is naive at best, disingenuous at worst, and misguided always.
To paraphrase John Wheeler on spacetime: Society tells science how to move; science tells society how to curve.
Re: There’s still no good reason to believe black-white IQ differences due to genes
#4This is a subject no-one dare broach without getting labelled 'racist' or a 'white supremacist' etc. People need to be free to pursue science free of political and social ideology. Are all people equal? No. Should all people be treated equally? Of course. That's the distinction a lot of these people don't make, the article is all 'yap, yap yap' and very light on facts.
We should also make a distinction between science as it pertains to things like physics and chemistry, and the "science" of things like IQ tests which, though they may technically follow a scientific method, are heavily skewed by social factors and are far less likely to represent any kind of universal truth.
Re: There’s still no good reason to believe black-white IQ differences due to genes
#5This is a subject no-one dare broach without getting labelled 'racist' or a 'white supremacist' etc. People need to be free to pursue science free of political and social ideology. Are all people equal? No. Should all people be treated equally? Of course. That's the distinction a lot of these people don't make, the article is all 'yap, yap yap' and very light on facts.
I don't believe that distinction is possible. Advocates of "race realism" often make the following argument:
> Race X has lower intelligence and higher aggression > Therefore, we must take measures against X to prevent them from committing crimes or making bad decision.
Consider the case of the mentally disabled. They have custodians that can make decisions for them, such as what they must do, where they must live, and what they must avoid.
The line that race realists typically cross, is that they extrapolate supposed IQ differences and start treating people of other races as if they are mentally disabled (i.e. not giving them rights).
Re: There’s still no good reason to believe black-white IQ differences due to genes
#6They concede that IQ (a) exists, (b) predicts many life outcomes, (c) differs between groups, and (d) is partly heritable. If an alien at this point were presented with these premises, does anyone suppose its natural conclusion would be, "this must be completely due to environmental factors, and not in the least genetic ones?"
Surely claiming a difference of outcome is entirely due to environmental factors is as extreme as claiming it's entirely due entirely to genetics. Yet imagine the uproar if someone had claimed the latter. Contrast that with the support Vox has gotten for their article.
It is dangerous to require a conclusion to be true rather than being open to whatever is.
Re: There’s still no good reason to believe black-white IQ differences due to genes
#7This is a subject no-one dare broach without getting labelled 'racist' or a 'white supremacist' etc. People need to be free to pursue science free of political and social ideology. Are all people equal? No. Should all people be treated equally? Of course. That's the distinction a lot of these people don't make, the article is all 'yap, yap yap' and very light on facts.
this is the really important part. that as part of a civil society we are all expected to behave to the same basic standard and can expect the same basic treatment (rights).
whether we are disabled (as a genotype or a phenotype), what we believe in, who we choose to associate with, how we spend our time, etc
without this you don't have much. given this its all academic, which is just fine
Re: There’s still no good reason to believe black-white IQ differences due to genes
#8This is a subject no-one dare broach without getting labelled 'racist' or a 'white supremacist' etc. People need to be free to pursue science free of political and social ideology. Are all people equal? No. Should all people be treated equally? Of course. That's the distinction a lot of these people don't make, the article is all 'yap, yap yap' and very light on facts.
We should also make a distinction between science as it pertains to things like physics and chemistry, and the "science" of things like IQ tests which, though they may technically follow a scientific method, are heavily skewed by social factors and are far less likely to represent any kind of universal truth.
and the "science" of things like IQ tests
Why the quotes? Are you just generally down on the social sciences?
Re: There’s still no good reason to believe black-white IQ differences due to genes
#9it's ironic that people are still stuck in the old school stupidity of english/german blood line (genetic) thinking about discrimination.
why is this? no, i'm not a liberal here to promote the confirmation bias you have about white guilt.
i'm the crito , here to point out that it might be more racist to claim black people on average are stupider than others because of their degenerate social culture of anti-intellectualism.
does that sound more, or less, racist than claiming black people are stupider because of genetics?
i'm not really seeking an answer, i'm just here to troll you simpleton's who have been race baited and divided and conquered every way until Tuesday.
Re: There’s still no good reason to believe black-white IQ differences due to genes
#10They concede that IQ (a) exists, (b) predicts many life outcomes, (c) differs between groups, and (d) is partly heritable. If an alien at this point were presented with these premises, does anyone suppose its natural conclusion would be, "this must be completely due to environmental factors, and not in the least genetic ones?" Surely claiming a difference of outcome is entirely due to environmental factors is as extr…
We should all concede that structural racism (a) exists, (b) predicts many life outcomes, (c) differs between groups, and (d) is very heritable.
If an alien at this point were presented with these premises, does anyone suppose its natural conclusion would be, "the observed black-white IQ differences must be at the very least partially due to genetic factors, it is not possible that the environment can account for all of it."
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The point is not that a genetic factor is not possible, but that the environmental factors (in our past and current racist world) totally overwhelm any possible genetic factors, even to such a degree that the genetic difference could even go the other way (i.e. blacks could be genetically more intelligent than whites).
I'd personally add this point: Those emphasizing the importance of open-mindedness about the possibility of genetic factors while failing to acknowledge the severity of environmental factors are thus contributing to those very environmental factors. They are self-fulfilling prophets.
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I'm pretty sure if you got in a time machine and went back to the 18th or 19th century, and told people there what blacks, women, and gay people do in the early 21st century, they'd have more trouble believing that than your time machine.