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Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#71

Post by jfnixon »

DennisP wrote: post #53
nonbel wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>'You're basically claiming they found evidence disproving a link with the "don't link the event to climate change."' No I am not. But by default I would assume all such events (really every event on earth) are somehow linked to climate change... it is exceptional to me that they claim to have no evidence for this. Edit: Isn't it interesting that everyone except them (who are the apparent experts here) seems to have…

This comes up a lot in climate discussions. There's a record hurricane or heat wave, but these things happen randomly so there's no way to say definitively that one particular event would not have happened without climate change. But we do know that overall, climate change causes stronger hurricanes and hotter heat waves. In the same way, we know smoking causes lung cancer, but if you're a smoker who gets lung cancer…

"But we do know that overall, climate change causes stronger hurricanes" How do we know this? I can find all sorts of papers predicting stronger hurricanes, but just like the predictions of more numerous hurricanes, there seems to be little observational evidence of the effect.

Here's the measured Accumulated Cyclone Energy, worldwide, 1970-2016. The total energy seems to peak in the mid 1990s. Is this consistent with claims of stronger hurricanes and more destructive hurricane seasons?

https://www.wunderground.com/hurricane/accumulated_cyclone_e...

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#72

Post by duncan_bayne »

CuriousSkeptic wrote: post #48
Consultant32452 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be hard to find anything that isn't exceedingly one-sided if socio-economics and politics are involved. One thing to remember when you read that stuff is that the poorest are the ones that suffer the most from the regulations we put in place. For example, I support taxation on any product or service with externalities where it's nearly impossible to price the damage done into the product naturally. Pollution…

Distributing the revenue from said taxes back as a public dividend should solve that problem nicely. Since we're all impacted by those externalities a public dividend is only fair. And since the distributed money compensate for increased costs the tax can be pretty high, and thus effective in directing money towards alternate solutions.

... which makes the case that proponents of such taxes are at least partially motivated by anti-capitalism and socialism.

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#73

Post by jfnixon »

cmurf wrote: post #70
bzbarsky wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That perception is _much_ older than Reagan. Back in 1866 we have: > No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. (Gideon Tucker), and it was hardly a brand-new notion then. The fact is that government, even democratic government, puts its needs and desires first. To the extent that this matches up with the needs and desires of the people it's governing, things are good. To the ex…

>No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. That's obscure and it's also being taken out of context [1]. What I said, was "widespread notion in the Republican party" I do mean contemporary, this is not an exhaustive search or maybe I'd go back to the Magna Carte. >The fact is that government, even democratic government, puts its needs and desires first. Really, it's a fact? You…

"The current constitution... incorporated and institutionalized racism to appease a certain local (regional) advocacy."

You do know that the anti-slavery advocates were the source of the 3/5ths compromise, right? Anti-slavery groups didn't want slaves to count at all for determining representation, while pro-slavery groups wanted slaves fully counted. If the 3/5ths compromise institutionalized racism in the Constitution, it was to 'appease' the anti-slavery advocates. Since you appear to misunderstand this, perhaps you should ask yourself what other facts you misunderstand.

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#74

Post by rayiner »

harryh wrote: post #68
rayiner wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Republican Party capitalizes on that perception but doesn't create it. America's governments are remarkably inept at doing even basic things. I just got back from Tokyo, where my 45 minute train ride from the airport arrived downtown within a minute of schedule. Meanwhile, the D.C. metro segment of my commute runs at best 20% over scheduled time. That's despite being one of the most expensive systems in the world…

The question to me is why is this the case? What makes American government particularly disfunctional and how can that be fixed? I don't really have any answers.

Totally escapes me too. I suspect deep-seated cultural differences. America is a more contentious, less cooperative society so we add layers of complexity to mediate between all these groups of people who can't agree on even basic things. In most European countries, for example, it's very difficult to block development projects through things like environmental review lawsuits. But there is also this basic level of trust that whoever is running the project won't build a chemical refinery next to an elementary school. Nobody has that trust in the U.S.

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#75

Post by ocschwar »

rayiner wrote: post #50
cmurf wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can trace the widespread notions in the Republican party that the government cannot ever do anything correctly, and should be feared when it tries, to this quote: The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. - Ronald Reagan No no, don't believe in auditing, and ethics, and holding officials accountable with voting, and when necessary prosecutions. Just be sca…

The Republican Party capitalizes on that perception but doesn't create it. America's governments are remarkably inept at doing even basic things. I just got back from Tokyo, where my 45 minute train ride from the airport arrived downtown within a minute of schedule. Meanwhile, the D.C. metro segment of my commute runs at best 20% over scheduled time. That's despite being one of the most expensive systems in the world…

The DC Metro is subject to malicious interference from a certain political party that LIKES it to be unpunctual and troubled. Gives them something to bash

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#76

Post by ocschwar »

nonbel wrote: post #30

I've found the coverage of this Larsen C rift to be disquieting since I read that the people studying it don't link the event to climate change: >"The team say they have no evidence to link the growth of this rift, and the eventual calving, to climate change." https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170602112819.h... It seems that everyone in the media or commenting on the internet suddenly knows better than th…

Nobody can link any particular home run from Barry Bonds to the steroids he took, either.

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#77

Post by nonbel »

ocschwar wrote: post #76
nonbel wrote: post #30

I've found the coverage of this Larsen C rift to be disquieting since I read that the people studying it don't link the event to climate change: >"The team say they have no evidence to link the growth of this rift, and the eventual calving, to climate change." https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170602112819.h... It seems that everyone in the media or commenting on the internet suddenly knows better than th…

Nobody can link any particular home run from Barry Bonds to the steroids he took, either.

So you are saying it is linked to climate change anyway (but this is impossible to get evidence for) or what? There is a very curious social phenomenon going on regarding this event.

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#78

Post by ocschwar »

nonbel wrote: post #77
ocschwar wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody can link any particular home run from Barry Bonds to the steroids he took, either.

So you are saying it is linked to climate change anyway (but this is impossible to get evidence for) or what? There is a very curious social phenomenon going on regarding this event.

I'm saying at this point it's wiser to say that it is than to say that it isn't.

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#79

Post by tasty_freeze »

bzbarsky wrote: post #57
cmurf wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can trace the widespread notions in the Republican party that the government cannot ever do anything correctly, and should be feared when it tries, to this quote: The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help. - Ronald Reagan No no, don't believe in auditing, and ethics, and holding officials accountable with voting, and when necessary prosecutions. Just be sca…

That perception is _much_ older than Reagan. Back in 1866 we have: > No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session. (Gideon Tucker), and it was hardly a brand-new notion then. The fact is that government, even democratic government, puts its needs and desires first. To the extent that this matches up with the needs and desires of the people it's governing, things are good. To the ex…

No doubt cynicism is as old as politics. But there is a difference when a wag says "don't trust the government" and when the newly elected President of the US says it.

There are legitimate debates to be had about the size and function of the government. But I've never understood the populist appeal of the declaration: The government only causes problems -- elect me and let me prove it to you!

Re: Antarctica Is Melting, and Giant Ice Cracks Are Just the Start

#80

Post by rayiner »

ocschwar wrote: post #75
rayiner wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Republican Party capitalizes on that perception but doesn't create it. America's governments are remarkably inept at doing even basic things. I just got back from Tokyo, where my 45 minute train ride from the airport arrived downtown within a minute of schedule. Meanwhile, the D.C. metro segment of my commute runs at best 20% over scheduled time. That's despite being one of the most expensive systems in the world…

The DC Metro is subject to malicious interference from a certain political party that LIKES it to be unpunctual and troubled. Gives them something to bash

The D.C. Metro is funded and controlled by D.C. and various MD and VA counties that are overwhelmingly controlled by Democrats.
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