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Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

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Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#51

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

Mz wrote: post #42
noonespecial wrote: post #12

To be fair, his "photo" looks a lot more like him than my passport photo looks like me. It was taken early in the morning with an ancient camera under fluorescent lights at a post office. I am tinted decidedly green and my eyes look half closed. I look more like an extra on The Walking Dead than an international traveler. He claims the photo is a "fiction". All photos are. The photo's job is to say that "the person i…

To be fair, his "photo" looks a lot more like him than my passport photo looks like me. What on earth makes you assert this? Do you personally know the man?

To add to this, where is the proof this isn't simply a photo. Where's the proof that the other photos of him on his website aren't fakes / also fakes / touched up.

"Artists" have been known to perform stunts in this vein.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#52

Post by djsumdog »

raverbashing wrote: post #37
jacquesm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He claims the photo is a "fiction". All photos are. That's not true. Your passport photo is supposed to be a snapshot of what you looked like in person at a certain point in time. It is the difference between a registration and a creation. The likely effect of actions like these is that eventually the passport office will take the photographs to avoid people playing games with the system (such as: replacing the eye…

No need to overcomplicate this: if the photo is obviously different from the person the document is not valid for its purpose Feel free to submit a photo that confuses the biometric requirements, hope you like the automated border gates rejecting your passport

I don't think anyone uses the photo for biometric identification. I thought those devices you look at in line simply take a photo of you on entry. In most countries you still face the customs officer who looks at you and your documents.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#53

Post by avenoir »

I think this is the first time when I almost thought that this is a photograph not 3D model. The facial features are almost life-like, but then you look up and look at the hair line and you realize what you're looking at. Still mind-blowing, at least to me, how close we are to modeling 3D models of humans indistinguishable from real-life.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#54

Post by djsumdog »

nine_k wrote: post #16
ipsin wrote: post #5

Now we just need a scare story about how two similar-looking men could get a single passport using an "averaged digital composition". [To bypass a no-fly list, for example]

A friend of a friend told me about identical twins that sometimes swapped identities and documents, to circumvent some bureaucratic hurdles.

I knew a guy who had a black-sheep-ish twin brother. He was starting to turn his life around, but then stole his brother's ID and did a bunch of shit. We were like, "wait why would he steal your ID--oh yea..duh...you're twins"

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#55

Post by djsumdog »

evanb wrote: post #35

Is there no confirmation under penalty of perjury that the image provided was a photograph (and not just a likeness)? Or, is it as he claims, satisfactory according to the requisite standards? "Artist uses a blog post to provide evidence of government falsifying documents."

Well he lists the French legal requirements on the post and he seems to match all the criteria.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#56

Post by jacquesm »

jimmywanger wrote: post #50
jacquesm wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The integrity matters because anything other than that is considered a falsification. It's a legal requirement, not a technical one. Of course you could flip a LSB in some grayscale image and get away with it. But from a legal point of view you've just done something that is not allowed.

Thank you for answering my question. It's illegal because the law says that it's illegal, and the law doesn't really have any justification based in fact or actual use-cases, it's just legislation and legislation has a mind of its own. So this new model might lead to additional legal changes, but the main changes a customer might see is that if the government decides it was wrong and decides on another definition of…

> It's illegal because the law says that it's illegal

That goes for all laws.

> the law doesn't really have any justification based in fact or actual use-cases, it's just legislation and legislation has a mind of its own.

No, the law is embodying many years of experience with people attempting to forge IDs. So 'tampering' with the inputs to the process is tantamount to forgery, it makes good sense and it draws the lines in an extremely clear and non-ambiguous way. Far better than to leave some vague statements open to interpretation about what manipulation is allowed and what not (fun bit: people asking the service if we can edit out their wrinkles...).

> the government doubles down and requires an audit trail of the ID photograph from the taking of the photograph and all devices used to process the photograph.

In some places they do this, you get a certificate of authenticity with your passport photographs that you have to hand in to the officials.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#57

Post by Mz »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #51
Mz wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, his "photo" looks a lot more like him than my passport photo looks like me. What on earth makes you assert this? Do you personally know the man?

To add to this, where is the proof this isn't simply a photo. Where's the proof that the other photos of him on his website aren't fakes / also fakes / touched up. "Artists" have been known to perform stunts in this vein.

Yeah, I was discussing that with my son over lunch. Even if we have other photos of him on his own website, how is this some sort of objective evidence?

I pulled out my new photo ID received days ago and showed my son the godawful photo on it. We had a good laugh about how it doesn't look like me at all. He could tell because he was looking at me right then while we talked.

I stand by my idea that if you have not seen this person in person, you don't really know how representative it is. My ex husband consistently took hideous photos of me. My sister consistently took charming photos of me. Photos say as much about what is in the mind's eye of the photographer as they do about the subject -- and sometimes more.

Your own passport or ID photos being particularly bad isn't actually relevant to the assertion that this is a good likeness of this man. How do any of us know this is a good likeness of him, other than just taking him at his word?

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#58

Post by throwaway_photo »

jacquesm wrote: post #15
noonespecial wrote: post #12

To be fair, his "photo" looks a lot more like him than my passport photo looks like me. It was taken early in the morning with an ancient camera under fluorescent lights at a post office. I am tinted decidedly green and my eyes look half closed. I look more like an extra on The Walking Dead than an international traveler. He claims the photo is a "fiction". All photos are. The photo's job is to say that "the person i…

> He claims the photo is a "fiction". All photos are. That's not true. Your passport photo is supposed to be a snapshot of what you looked like in person at a certain point in time. It is the difference between a registration and a creation. The likely effect of actions like these is that eventually the passport office will take the photographs to avoid people playing games with the system (such as: replacing the eye…

> The likely effect of actions like these is that eventually the passport office will take the photographs

That is the case in Hungary, where I'm from. I was surprised by this the last time I had a passport made. It came out looking good, I was just upset that I had had photos made before because the rules weren't communicated clearly. Other than that, I see no drawbacks.

Re: Artist uses a computer model of his face to get a French National ID

#59

Post by throwaway_photo »

djsumdog wrote: post #55
evanb wrote: post #35

Is there no confirmation under penalty of perjury that the image provided was a photograph (and not just a likeness)? Or, is it as he claims, satisfactory according to the requisite standards? "Artist uses a blog post to provide evidence of government falsifying documents."

Well he lists the French legal requirements on the post and he seems to match all the criteria.

The criteria (online at https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F10619) talk explicitly about photos. They also say it has to be taken by a professional or in a photo booth certified by the government. IANAL, but I wouldn't build on that defense.
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